Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[Totally not Taffy]

Has anyone got anything from manti today

Not yet, and given her assertions yesterday that I'm so very much outed and needed to be killed, I want to know which revelation she had that changed that (assuming it changed from her SoD).


Taffy (9)

[pzelda]

Also, to sum up where I'm at (I think it might be slightly confusing for you)
Towncore (I just don't consider entertaining a vote) - benneh, dya, stett
3p/town - Taffy
Towny players I find myself agreeing with a lot and I also find them quite towny, but he thread makes me feel like I should doubt them - ladd
Players I found towny and want them to be town, but can see them flipping mafia - Visor
Players I found to be clear towns earlier but I'm reconsidering them now - waza, lissa
Possible wolves, but they also are miselim baits aka it feels too easy - Maple, Ender

Based on this tier list max one wolf in Maple, Ender tbh. I would say my list is quite consensus, maybe too consensus.
Ladd is an interesting one. Quite a few players have voted him over the course of the day and I actually find him townier than most of them rn. So, maybe I should consider these votes.

[pzelda]

The problem with Ender (and with Manti to some extent) is that they're wolfy. Can they be wolves? Yes Can they be wolfy towns manufacturing reads? Absolutely. So, it's natural they are in the poe, but we should be trying to find something they would have no need to do as wolves. Like Ender making quite a few drive by hottakes around page 9 without any pressure on him.

[Maple]

im gona guess manti is a wolf arso that douses and gives a track to the same player but they can't ever ignite or alternately they ignite only when they die

so rip visor and stett in that world

thats craaaaaazy

[Visor]

im gona guess manti is a wolf arso that douses and gives a track to the same player but they can't ever ignite or alternately they ignite only when they die

so rip visor and stett in that world

Did stett claim they got something

[pzelda]

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

[Visor]

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

I prefer go/at

[Totally not Taffy]

@Totally not Taffy sometimes 1 post is enuf (but i also think they have posted well today and yday at eod). Idk who you are talking about that has the opposute visor read as me?

Dyachei.

You say "Visor has been playing the agitator and having original pushes all game" and they say "he's not really doing much this game" those two are completely opposite

So I'd expect you to notice it and talk about that to eachother. And afaict you're not. It's uncritical treatment of eachother and you're two keen players.

Taffy (10)

[Totally not Taffy]

Btw taffy, what's your take on Visor? You asked Dya and Ladd a whole bunch of questions, but I have to admit I would like to know your take too.

I think Visor is town bc of how he's posting. I thought the inaccuracy he pointed out in Arctic's D1 case (against Visor) was justified and I'm sure he'd have made that post as either alignment. If I get round to reading D2 I might change my mind if I feel like he was standing aside and letting the town circus happen, but his posts today are also very towny. So for the time being Visor lives in the "don't vote till FX" category, together with you, Ender, Happy, and Benneh.

Taffy (11)

[pzelda]

I've just recalled Visor's w meta here. He was mostly pocketing old school org/civfans players by reacting to their posts with this emoji
Also, I'm locking Lissa town and I feel good about it. If I'm wrong I'm leaving mafia forever. My reasons can be found if you click the button.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Lissa's been posting well posting reads and all, but I'm not sure just yet if she's trying to solve the game as well. If there are any conclusions.
Waza talking about bussing rask is scary.
#281 is a mindmeld with Lissa on Visor.
Lissa on page 10 is super pleasant, but there's nothing I should lock her town for.
#292 dunno but I don't like this post. On one hand the read on Manti is written in a very flowing way. On the other hand It says nothing. And the question at the end. It makes sense but it also feels a little bit ad hoc.
I should comment on tracks I like. I love Big Thief for example.
I like Lissa's posts here overall. I townlean them, but It might not be enough at this point
Lissa's reaction to sunbae (calling stett town) feels charitable in a villa way.
There's some content in Maple's posts, but man is it burried.
I really like Lissa basically villareading everyone midday 1 that's a STRONG TOWN TELL tbh.
tbh I think I scumread @Sunbae because they're such a good villager it looked fake. They were miles ahead.

Ok, a stupid Lissa meta read. She entered this game after winning as a wolf. She was very charitable with her reads d1 and found everyone villagery midday 1. That would never happen if she were a wolf. I'm locking her town and I'm ready to fight with anyone voting her.

Manti's response to the same post (#322) isn't as towny. I find it interesting that Manti calls Ender town for the second time.
Ladd's overlooking some stuff. It feels like low effort villageing more than like a wolf staying on a surface level.

Visor dropping his Annika v lean when they got under pressure and voted by several town leaders is noteworthy.

pages 9-12 btw. I'm a slow reader.
I think my poe at this point is visor/waza/maple/ender with the focus on the former two.

[pzelda]

I think Visor is town bc of how he's posting. I thought the inaccuracy he pointed out in Arctic's D1 case (against Visor) was justified and I'm sure he'd have made that post as either alignment. If I get round to reading D2 I might change my mind if I feel like he was standing aside and letting the town circus happen, but his posts today are also very towny. So for the time being Visor lives in the "don't vote till FX" category, together with you, Ender, Happy, and Benneh.

Taffy (11)

It still feels like he's standing aside not really helping town on the right course. Also, pointing out inaccuracies in a case aimed at you is easy tbh.

[Totally not Taffy]

btw people, tell me if I'm misgendering you or if I'm using wrong pronouns. I forgot to ask early on. I know Benneh, Visor, Ender, ladd, sunbae, Rask should prefer he. I remember Manti using he as well, but Lissa is using she for them. Lissa used to be she. Is it still the case? Dya they/she. The rest I have no idea.

I mostly use he/him btw.

I'm generally pretty ok with all pronouns bc it's interesting to me to see how I come across to ppl. The one exception is "it" bc I'm a person, not an object, and for similar reasons I dislike it when ppl don't capitalise my name.

Taffy (12)

[Totally not Taffy]

It still feels like he's standing aside not really helping town on the right course. Also, pointing out inaccuracies in a case aimed at you is easy tbh.

Yeah my point about the case there was mostly that it's NAI and I don't hold it against him.
What would you like him to do in order to help town get on the right course?

Taffy (13)

[Totally not Taffy]

vote: taffy

straight meowted honestly this is never village


poor wittle arcy going over here but w/e we still have 2 wolves to find (im preflipping him v because i hate all of you)

annika + ender
benneh + ender/zelda
lissa + ladd?/ender

for bus worlds. i havent thought about visor or stett worlds much but who cares theyre v

non bus worlds its gotta be some combination of ender/zelda/ladd maaaaaaaaaaybe waza but he feels pretty v but like idk he could be playing lik a psycho this game mayyyybeeeeee dyachei but grrrr taht implies my reads are shit

@Maple how did you get to these specific pairings?

Taffy (14)

[pzelda]

Also, I'm kicking Dya out of towncore for now tbh. Btw It's not because of the low levels of activity. It's because of the content of these early posts being kind of weak sauce. I liked them earlier, but I admit I was influenced by my ancient meta on dya (which I love and I tried to play like her in several games).

I hope your cat's doing better btw.

Next point
That last d1 post from waza is something. The section dedicated to Rask is weird? Like he needed to justify the vote, maybe even call out rask a little bit. I admit I might be doing that tunnel vision thing now. Nothing he couldn't write as town.
Calling Sunbae wolf and at the same point declaring that he won't vote there is iffy. Stick to your guns, goes the saying.
And then it's just a pile of words. It feels a lot like a wall made for the sake of posting one. There are some good bits but the overall town is like I could imagine voting most of these players. Not too many townreads. I want to vote now waza tbh.

Vote: waza

[didistetter]

@didistetter @ladd @Lissa @Maple @dyachei @Visor

did you all correctly read the latter half of this, actually?
are we sure taffy has to be a village with this implementation?

if the tracks are real (well, we know tracks are real) -- why couldn't taffy be a mafia arsonist who sometimes can choose to target mafia for purposes of tracking since a wolf teammate would have ways to remove those douses on a future night?

@nebjiamn yes i correctly read it. The only world taffy is a wolf is like... lost wolf? The need to diffuse mafia at all doesn't coexist well with maf bomber


also to clarify: i did not get a track from Maple. dif invention,

[didistetter]

+1

If I had bombed last night, it'd probably have been Stett.
Bc EoD1 she immediately bought and defended Arctic as PR (and I'm not dismissing the chance that Sunbae died defending him), combined with the plan(s) to keep him alive - it looks like she just couldn't see him as a wolf when everyone else could. And then yesterday's repeated begging at EoD not to bomb Annika only for her to end up dead - that's very much a move I've seen wolves do.

So no you're not alone.
But if anything I'm not a hero shooter.

Taffy (7)

ah yes checks notes lemme: kill my 0 posting mafia parter while defending you + arctic, nk sunbae who had me top town, try to start a wagon on someone i dont townread to counter the vote on someone i do, yell at you like 10 times to not douse annika, nk annika who had me as top town.

.... sick wolf play

[didistetter]

very fair, only really makes sense in the world there is a town rb/jk and i imagine one of those woulda claimed by now

@nebjiamn

uh well

so

manti gave me a jailkeep.

dunno if track + jk inventor makes the world more functional for you or not.

[didistetter]

stett, just ftr, i think you'd have a lot easier time finding me if you just worked with me rather than holding a blanket concern about tinfoil worlds and talking around me like you have basically since slightly after SOD1. you're trying to solve me based off of how the game has flown but you have a good grasp on how i play the game philosophically and via interacting with me so i wish you'd do that

noting this could probably apply to several players that i am reading, so its not a shot at you and the appeal itself is obvious nai, i don't expect you to read this and be like "wow ok concerns dropped!" but i feel like you know how i town and how i wolf and you are just worried cause i'm a good wolf sometimes. but its pretty frustrating you have been playing around me all game cause you're worried i'm pocketing you when

idk i'd implore you to look at eod1 tbh. i was trying to parrot you and/or annika about killing ladd or maple day 1 and then we all ended up on rask. how likely is it you think ladd/maple has 0 wolves? if its highly likely then feel free to continue sussing me ig, but that's not how i see the worlds right now? and there's a different scenario day 1 where instead of landing on a shrugyeet of a wolf, you/me/annika all work together and hit on one of them who is a wolf. if i'm a 3rd wolf in that potential pairing what the fuck am i doing and how do you process that vs what you know about how i wolf lol

(ftr i know you're not super super concerned so this is LESS about you needing to lock town me and MORE about you playing the game with me. its kinda what i signed up for homie)

i agree that your eod felt towny.

I think my problem is: the bit of ate d2 kinda shook me, and I 10000% you would have those emotions as town, but it kinda threw me back to indie mash where, when i solved around you I was mostly right, but when i fell for a ate moment and started solving with you you were indeed wolf and you stated talking me out of all my correct scumreads.

I think the problem i'm really struggling with rn is:
maple is making herself impossible to find by just tunneling taffy for the most part and being bored with the game. It's hard for me to process.
I think both pzelda and ender have been towny. I think lissa has fallen off and i really struggled with her handling of arctic yesterday.
I kinda have you/ladd as both sounding good and speaking well, but I struggle hard with the directions yall take.

Like
Ladd pushed taffy D1 and a bit D2.
He's now pushing maple as wolf and ender as second wolf.
Maybe this is another stett is bad and wrong and needs to stfu like a good girl moment but... Realistically i see a world that's three town. And his strong defense of you is pinging me, b/c i'm not sure if it's just correct, if it's pockety, or if it actually does have pair equity.

I also, no shade, really really didn't like his catchup posts "relooking" at the whole game yesterday, and the thoughts felt kinda shallow/performative.

This is an incredibly fucking stupid thing to be worried about but i didn't like your post questioning me on why I asked about millers b/c it kinda feels like you'd normally say "lol stett is softing cop and is vt, polarized noob L"... but maybe that means you're uninformed

I do agree that you seemed down to kill ladd eod1, but it's hard to full eval when you were postcapped so it's mostly vote swinging. I'm p sure I also explicitly said I didn't actually want to kill ladd while he was AFK for being seemingly wrong on Taffy, so im not sure how much juice that actually had.

It's more my concern now that you're focusing on maple, who doesn't seem particularly fussed to play the game, than ladd: who fits more into the profile of a maf in this gamestate to me

anyways i appreciate you and im sorry if it feels like I've been stonewalling you. I'm kinda bad at doing like... big dissection solvy wally posts nowadays.

vote: ladd

[pzelda]

Ok, I should stop wasting posts on bits like this, but I think that the distribution of waffles is:

1-2 in waza, Visor, dya
0-1 in Manti, Ender

There's this hint of doubt in the way Manti townread Ender, but... he could do that as town or push it as his v read for whatever reason as wolf. I wouldn't use that to associate them.
I'm more interested if I can figure out more about waza, dya and Visor. I think they're where we should focus. Like ender and manti are players we're never removing from poe for their posts only (I'm sorry if it's too harsh).

I'm still rereading while writing this and p15 ender looks kinda good. He was laid-back and he was quickshooting posts showing his process. I'm not putting him into my towncore, but I again have a different reason to town lean him.

#450 tbh reads like a w/w interaction from Visor.
#544 is a great post. I want to be as good as Sunbae. 1-2 wolves in waza/visor/dya but not waza+dya makes sense and it makes the game easier.
#555 I want to tr Manti for this post.

Waza voting rask several times is little too much.
Visor voted for Rask at a crucial time makes him look better. Oh, this game's difficult. I was arriving at dya/visor, but I will need more to call them wolves. Visor trending up, at least slightly, with that vote. Does dya make sense without Visor to me with manti? I'm not sure tbh. I don't think so. Visor makes sense with more players and Waza makes sense with Manti or Visor.

[pzelda]

Oh, Ladd being a wolf for pushing low hanging fruit and being too consensus is an interesting take.
I don't think I will follow (def not now) it but I like your thinking there.

I also like your point about Maple being bored with the game. That probably makes them town.

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1341

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	ladd (15), nebjiamn (31), waza (7)
3	ladd	EnderWiggin (8), Maple (19), didistetter (21)
2	Lissa	Visor (11), dyachei (20)
1	waza	pzelda (21)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (1), Totally not Taffy (14)

[pzelda]

ben, I'm almost never gonna be able to make EOD because Amy refuses to go to bed reasonably.

Idk how to read taffy so if anyone has some tips there lmk

I am pretty concerned about ladd but felt better about him at EOD

btw ladd/dya not w/w.

[pzelda]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1341

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	ladd (15), nebjiamn (31), waza (7)
3	ladd	EnderWiggin (8), Maple (19), didistetter (21)
2	Lissa	Visor (11), dyachei (20)
1	waza	pzelda (21)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (1), Totally not Taffy (14)

Interesting votes!!!
That Ladd wagon has both Maple and Ender on it.
Lissa collected votes from both Dya and Visor (I know it's not Dya and Visor despite that one post from Visor)
I would say 1 wolf in Maple voters!

[Visor]

btw ladd/dya not w/w.

For that? Lol

[pzelda]

For that? Lol

I think there was a post dya was responding to? I already managed to forget. But tbh I've just been considering ladd/dya..

[nebjiamn]

i agree that your eod felt towny.

I think my problem is: the bit of ate d2 kinda shook me, and I 10000% you would have those emotions as town, but it kinda threw me back to indie mash where, when i solved around you I was mostly right, but when i fell for a ate moment and started solving with you you were indeed wolf and you stated talking me out of all my correct scumreads.

I think the problem i'm really struggling with rn is:
maple is making herself impossible to find by just tunneling taffy for the most part and being bored with the game. It's hard for me to process.
I think both pzelda and ender have been towny. I think lissa has fallen off and i really struggled with her handling of arctic yesterday.
I kinda have you/ladd as both sounding good and speaking well, but I struggle hard with the directions yall take.

Like
Ladd pushed taffy D1 and a bit D2.
He's now pushing maple as wolf and ender as second wolf.
Maybe this is another stett is bad and wrong and needs to stfu like a good girl moment but... Realistically i see a world that's three town. And his strong defense of you is pinging me, b/c i'm not sure if it's just correct, if it's pockety, or if it actually does have pair equity.

I also, no shade, really really didn't like his catchup posts "relooking" at the whole game yesterday, and the thoughts felt kinda shallow/performative.

I do agree that you seemed down to kill ladd eod1, but it's hard to full eval when you were postcapped so it's mostly vote swinging. I'm p sure I also explicitly said I didn't actually want to kill ladd while he was AFK for being seemingly wrong on Taffy, so im not sure how much juice that actually had.

It's more my concern now that you're focusing on maple, who doesn't seem particularly fussed to play the game, than ladd: who fits more into the profile of a maf in this gamestate to me

anyways i appreciate you and im sorry if it feels like I've been stonewalling you. I'm kinda bad at doing like... big dissection solvy wally posts nowadays.

vote: ladd

it sounds like we are nearly exactly the same in world views. i think something perhaps not immediately palpable in my posts is that i very much see the current world as somewhat of a diff check on maple/ladd but its hard to really want to solve the ladd worlds when manti is posting how they are/have been. their posts, paticularly eod1 at annika and how uncharitable they are. their direction at eod2 with wanting to cfd taffy and also kinda soft pushing arctic (while then claiming arctic town) and sussing annika.

but i agree that ladd is very concerning and idk if you'vpe read my take on his game or not but it pretty much is still there.

lets try to tackle this from another angle: we share the same currency but we're looking at two different sides of the coin. I don't think manti is lock wolf but help me see the worlds where you see ladd as more likely? i thinka lazier and/or wolfier me would probably be like "manti is a lost cause if town" but rather than ascribe those kinda connotations tell me why we should point the gun at ladd over manti today (and preferably without referencing mech)?

(ftr i wouldn't entirely discount them being w/w when I say i see them as somewhat of a diff check but i dont really care about that today, solving for teams is kinda meh with the vote logic that we have)

This is an incredibly fucking stupid thing to be worried about but i didn't like your post questioning me on why I asked about millers b/c it kinda feels like you'd normally say "lol stett is softing cop and is vt, polarized noob L"... but maybe that means you're uninformed

stett you big dummy that post is like a continuation of your manti cop posting in bean, i am fully right to be freaked the fuck out by that shit lol

[pzelda]

Ladd d1 felt little off tbh. My impression was that they could be a pr.. Today I quite like them but I also admit they might be too consensus.

Also, I'm heading to bed.

My poe is waza/dya/visor/ladd now.
Ender probably just town.
I'm not sure about maple, but they're not out of some generic town meta tbh. Them being bored as town explains a lot tbh

[nebjiamn]

@nebjiamn

uh well

so

manti gave me a jailkeep.

dunno if track + jk inventor makes the world more functional for you or not.

idrc -- there's just too many hoops and variables and unknowns to jump through to try to rationalize the setupand speculate what gemma is thinking but good to know

[nebjiamn]

btw ladd/dya not w/w.

IMO that actually is one of the more pairing posts for them. it amkes a lot of sense for dya to do some distancing with w!ladd at sod2 given taffy's EOD and a lot of heat expected to come ladd's way as day 2 begins. and their response about how they felt better for him finding them before eod was a bit lackluster.

i don't really wana go down that well but if push comes to shove this isn't something worth clearing a dya/ladd team from existence imo