Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[nebjiamn]

heres what i think

i think both benneh and lissa were wolves around eod1 and did not want rask to go over, but knew that if he got momentum, they would need to capitalise on it

benneh is a smart wolf and he knows that giving rask an extra day and potential for more credit to villagers doesnt mean a lot when you can take that credit from villagers

i think they both talked it over and decided that if he became a wagon in the dying minutes they'd bus him, but otherwise sit around and see if they can't wait it out

lissa was throwing the seeds of the bus out there without actually committing

it is only when annika, stett and me vote rask that suddenly he becomes the lead wagon and then they decide alright lets pull the trigger

bit uncharitable of me i know but i am feeling uncharitable at the moment

can you talk about why lissa is a wolf in the worlds i'm town

[EnderWiggin]

My Visor stocks have never been higher (oooh comfy pocket)

Vote: Maple

[Maple]

IM GONNA DO IT

IM GONNA SELF VOTE AND ATE JUST WATCH ME

[Lissa]

but truthfully we already had our wolf rand redemption in indie mash. at this point its vindiction rather than redemption

its true

i finally dont feel a twinge of lingering embarrassment when i think about that turbo LMAO

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1414

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
4	Maple	EnderWiggin (12), ladd (22), nebjiamn (44), waza (18)
3	Lissa	Visor (24), didistetter (22), dyachei (24)
1	ladd	Maple (29)
1	waza	pzelda (25)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (5), Totally not Taffy (14)

[dyachei]

lissa where are your reads rn

[waza]

Interesting votes!!!
That Ladd wagon has both Maple and Ender on it.
Lissa collected votes from both Dya and Visor (I know it's not Dya and Visor despite that one post from Visor)
I would say 1 wolf in Maple voters!

I don’t understand why you are solving around maple voters or why you think they’re town

@pzelda can you clarify

[Lissa]

lissa where are your reads rn

benneh villa, stett villa, you villa

visor... probably villa? but really needs a reread, i'm a little concerned i like, dug into this read a little too strong too early.

pzelda probably villa but if i ever find myself in a position where the game hinges on this i'd go dig up some meta prob

idk i still kinda just think maple is a villager i just feel like she would've played this whole game differently as a wolf lmao. i'll try to talk about this some more and shore it up

like i've said i think taffy is probably a neutral but wolf feels like it would be kinda wild mechanically even w/ what ben pointed out

my waza read was weakened some by arctic flipping villager but he is still probably town? for a number of reasons

ender and ladd both need a reread, but i think ladd is likely a wolf and writing this out i guess at this point so is ender? i'm not sure how much sense they make as a team.

[waza]

The hardest thing for me to wrap my head around this game is that people were townreading taffy d1 when they were still within wolf range and yet today when they’ve been posting incredibly pure nobody noted this out until I read back and did it, and even now people still find them wolfy or 3p

Taffy and visor have been the two most pure posters today fmpov

(Ironically enough visor could be doing the reverse of what he expects from me, where he’s been ramping up as a wolf each day, but eh I’m gonna reward towny posts as they are so him and taffy can be top town for me)

[didistetter]

Sunbae tr ladd and lissa, and one wolf in ben/dya/waza
Arctic tr ladd and dya, and SR ben and lissa
Annika had poe of Lissa/Ladd/Ender/Dya but didn't vote on dya and also kinda tr ladd and thought maple towntold

bruh idfk lol
@annika @Arctic why didn't yall vote dya with me yesterdayyyyyy -_-

[waza]

@nebjiamn

Humor me on a hypothetical

If sunbae was a 0 posting wolf, and ur town but u had very good reasons to think sunbae is a wolf from threadstate and the cw being a lock villa, would you consider voting sunbae if they were swapped with rask this game

If you could answer this as honestly as possible it would be helpful for me

[didistetter]

Vote: EnderWiggin

[waza]

Yeah I defs expected people to think the Annika read was premature/tmi

But I’m being completely serious when I say I’m like 99% sure she’s town

Didistter

Get rekd @annika

[EnderWiggin]

Vote: EnderWiggin

[EnderWiggin]

Oh visor is voting Lissa idk why I thought he was voting Maple

Vote: Lissa

[nebjiamn]

@nebjiamn

Humor me on a hypothetical

If sunbae was a 0 posting wolf, and ur town but u had very good reasons to think sunbae is a wolf from threadstate and the cw being a lock villa, would you consider voting sunbae if they were swapped with rask this game

If you could answer this as honestly as possible it would be helpful for me

purely on your hypothetical? yes

that's not really an analog for this game though. if you want an analog for this game i'd need to make the following premise adjustments:

1) i did not really think from threadstate rask was a wolf and by the time he was elimmed i was CERTAIN he was flipping town up until gemma posted his reveal. my vote there was purely that killing a 0 poster was better than killing arcy or taffy and i wanted to
2) i did not really think the CWs were lock villas. i thought taffy was a poor elim because of the claim. i thought arctic was a poor elim cause his eod felt convict-y and townie and he was being defended by annika who i'd moved into my town while i was capped, and i no longer wanted to kill sunbae or annika based on how things unfolded at eod.

so if to adjust your premise:

if sunbae was a 0 posting wolf but I had no real reason to think he was wolf or town, but the CWs were arctic/taffy and my reads had progressed on rask (he's replacing sunbae in this scenario) and annika since i was postcapped, would I consider voting sunbae?

and the answer to that is no. i'd have probably just eliminated arctic cause i like sunbae infinitely more and i'd rather have a small chance of sunbae showing up d2 than seeing arctic again even if i thought his eod was townie. there are too many variables ofc.

the most glaringly obvious and apropos variable of all--i highly doubt ANY town would be willing to have wagoned sunbae if he were in rask's position in this game at sod1. rask was 10000000000000% a shrug yeet, but i would put $10000 of my own money on the idea that people were more okay with it cause they figured he had a chance to be a rwstfo whereas with sunbae, they would be 1000000x more inclined to just say "he's clearly got something going on, i hope he's ok" and assume its NAI and give him the benefit of the doubt, so like, i don't think the hypothetical is really even possible, but if that is how it went down that's how i think it'd play out fmpov.

(also just tbc, this last paragraph is NOT shade at rask for being a rwstfo'r, i just think people are more willing to shrugyeet with that as a possibility. if it were sunbae they wouldn't even apply it as a metric, IMO)

[nebjiamn]

1) i did not really think from threadstate rask was a wolf and by the time he was elimmed i was CERTAIN he was flipping town up until gemma posted his reveal. my vote there was purely that killing a 0 poster was better than killing arcy or taffy and i wanted to make sure they didn't die over someone who was =rand

ebwop

[nebjiamn]

i guess ill also clarify i'm not intending to shade arctic either

but i DO like sunbae infinitely more, that's just math

[ladd]

define how i have been handling your slot?

i resent the idea that i haven't even tried to get there. you can argue my reasons are silly or bad but i don't think i'm on an island for being concerned about you given that lissa/dya/manti also share concerns around your slot and not all 4 of us are wolves?

also you are literally quotinga post where i was sussed by stett because i apparently haven't taken a hard enough line against you and i am very sure stett is town so I think its beneficial for us to work together and sort out where the thin line red is inbetween our reads on your two slots (manti/you) and how those might intersect with others

Put me in the bottom tier and stayed there from d1 to now, completely ignoring the legacy of 3 dead villas saying i am a villager and me posting perfectly fine imo

Sure other people are suspecting but i hold them to a lower standard on reading me. Not that i think you should always read me correctly or anything but thats just how i feel u have been handling me this game

[ladd]

ender and ladd both need a reread, but i think ladd is likely a wolf and writing this out i guess at this point so is ender? i'm not sure how much sense they make as a team.

Why am i a wolf

[ladd]

Vote: Lissa

vote:lissa

I forgot lol i saw you switched to ender lmk if u want me to switch

[nebjiamn]

think im going to just ride or die with this core today in hopes it works out?
6. nebjiamn - pros- voted a wolf (luck), out of wolf range, exceedingly villagery. cons- sucks at werewolf and only suspects town after day 1.
3. Visor - pros- voted a wolf, strong SOD1. cons- not much explaining after mid-d1.
4. didistetter - pros- voted a wolf, exceedingly strong EOD1, tonally has been mostly stellar, has progressions i think she struggles to make as wolf vs this spoecific playerlist. cons- some weird posting early day 1
14. dyachei - pros- sounds like town whenever they post, several people have cleared them for a post @ sunbae. cons- activity is low so can be hard to lock in the read
10. waza - pros- objectively lots of early townsiding in the form of townreads which is very much within waza's meta, exceedingly strong EOD1 whwerein he defended towns while postcapped with votes and unvotes. cons- probably the most capable wolf in the lobby? lots of the TRs were thin/TMI-ish so could get away with it.

people say he's always a villager so if everyone stifled discussion here for no reason then the loss isn't on me
15. pzelda - pros- allegedly out of wolf range, paranoia around their posting, if wolf: isn't the one driving agenda. cons- meta couldbe outdated or just wrong. somewaht aloof.

should be not-mafia barring bastard mechanics or an unclaimed town PR
11. Taffy - pros- pr claim that makes sense given rask's flip. should imply impossibility that they could be wolf pending no other town CCs. cons- nature of their KP is delayed and counterable, could be 3p as easy as they are town but doesn't really matter while wolves are alive.

same generic concern pile as everyone else
2. ladd - pros- lots of believable town reads and conviction behind them. cons- primary push day 1 was not wolf and the insistence on it was non-collaborative in ways that ring like w!ladd
7. Maple - pros- a pr claim. cons- a pr claim. both EODs have been absolutely horrendous and the rest of their dayplay isn't super inspiring either
8. Lissa - pros- voted a wolf. tonally good, 'threadspewed' town d1. cons- eod1 besides the vote is kinda rough in hindsight. last vote on the wolf and it was a 2 vote split, so in theory the vote didn't 'matter' in that sense.
12. Ender - pros- i legit have no idea? lots of the pros i had hinged on a w!arctic world. i need to dive in more on ender. cons- same idrk

i think i have good reasons for my poe and yes you fall into the bottom tier but i'm not really sure who you think i should be clearing less to move you up?

how should i viewing this game instead fypov? lol idgi

ignore the spoiler if you want, cause i'm just straight up venting in there, but tl;dr is tell me where / who you think you are more townie of that i need to be suspecting in your place rn? i will gladly entertain any discussion on the people above you but up until this point i don't think most of them you would have entertained besides 1 or maybe 2, and those would be on the poeple i have some of the strongest reasons to tr? but lay it out for me and ill consider it while i wait for eod

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i mean purely guessing froma poe standpoint, i'd guess you'd probably reply back that i should have more concerns with waza and visor. and I do on a tinfoil level.

but waza's EOD posting while uncapped where he basically communicated with votes seems very clearing, especially since arctic flipped town. and him posting about falling on his own sword so he coul dbe elim'd because arctic was 'outed' yesterday and he wanted to just douse him also feels good.

re: visor i could see him being a wolf in some worlds but i'd be rejecting how i feel about his day 1 posts which made me think very strongly he was town on my reread. i don't love that he can't find me here but i think the way he's framing things and referencing a mash from 8 years ago really tells me he is going hard for the conspiracy to get me killed in f5/f3 or he's just a town who is skill issuing like he has on me in the past 3 or 4 games. dude just cant find me to save his own life cause of some

cause i know you don't have an issue with me clearing dya or stett. taffy should never be wolf unless we're in a bastard game which I thinkw e both agree on is a fruitless tinfoil. and pzelda has been basically beaten over my head as a spewed townie all game long. and I agree with that!!!! but people have mostly refused to have any discussion for more than 3 seconds about htem being a wolf, so whatever.

so how on earth should i be reading this game? I put you in my poe but i gave you plenty of space today and even said i think i more likely land my vote in the other 3. then i catch shit from stett who's basically thinking i don't wolf read you enough so i OFFER HER A LINE to help me understand her pov and clarify my own to help her find me so we can find common ground and i can understand where she was on you in relation to maple/lissa ender. where the fuck do i win lol, i dont have any fuckin answers in this game, i'm doing my absolute best to try to uncover every absofuckinlutely last possible nook and cranny of this game to solve it cause its fuckin hard, so i'm sorry if i can't lock clear you with our given flips but its just my view of the game

[pzelda]

heres what i think

i think both benneh and lissa were wolves around eod1 and did not want rask to go over, but knew that if he got momentum, they would need to capitalise on it

benneh is a smart wolf and he knows that giving rask an extra day and potential for more credit to villagers doesnt mean a lot when you can take that credit from villagers

i think they both talked it over and decided that if he became a wagon in the dying minutes they'd bus him, but otherwise sit around and see if they can't wait it out

lissa was throwing the seeds of the bus out there without actually committing

it is only when annika, stett and me vote rask that suddenly he becomes the lead wagon and then they decide alright lets pull the trigger

bit uncharitable of me i know but i am feeling uncharitable at the moment

I kind of like this take. It doesn't fit my reads, but it's totally something to consider. It might be also why I don't really care about people voting Rask (I guess w you or w waza could have wanted to keep him around for personal reasons).
It goes against my reads atm esp. d1 Lissa. I just feel like she should and would avoid putting everyone in townreads or townleans. Calling everyone towny just made it more difficult for her to look consistent and to keep her options open.

[pzelda]

I don’t understand why you are solving around maple voters or why you think they’re town

@pzelda can you clarify

Maple is difficult to explain. They def seem to be the default elim today and they might be the right one. But it feels wrong? Like someone is pushing town into voting Maple. It's too consensus. They're not really fighting back in the way I think w manti would.
So, that's why I made this comment and because stett voted ladd and that wagon looked pure in a slightly crazy way.

[ladd]

i think i have good reasons for my poe and yes you fall into the bottom tier but i'm not really sure who you think i should be clearing less to move you up?

how should i viewing this game instead fypov? lol idgi

ignore the spoiler if you want, cause i'm just straight up venting in there, but tl;dr is tell me where / who you think you are more townie of that i need to be suspecting in your place rn? i will gladly entertain any discussion on the people above you but up until this point i don't think most of them you would have entertained besides 1 or maybe 2, and those would be on the poeple i have some of the strongest reasons to tr? but lay it out for me and ill consider it while i wait for eod

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

i mean purely guessing froma poe standpoint, i'd guess you'd probably reply back that i should have more concerns with waza and visor. and I do on a tinfoil level.

but waza's EOD posting while uncapped where he basically communicated with votes seems very clearing, especially since arctic flipped town. and him posting about falling on his own sword so he coul dbe elim'd because arctic was 'outed' yesterday and he wanted to just douse him also feels good.

re: visor i could see him being a wolf in some worlds but i'd be rejecting how i feel about his day 1 posts which made me think very strongly he was town on my reread. i don't love that he can't find me here but i think the way he's framing things and referencing a mash from 8 years ago really tells me he is going hard for the conspiracy to get me killed in f5/f3 or he's just a town who is skill issuing like he has on me in the past 3 or 4 games. dude just cant find me to save his own life cause of some

cause i know you don't have an issue with me clearing dya or stett. taffy should never be wolf unless we're in a bastard game which I thinkw e both agree on is a fruitless tinfoil. and pzelda has been basically beaten over my head as a spewed townie all game long. and I agree with that!!!! but people have mostly refused to have any discussion for more than 3 seconds about htem being a wolf, so whatever.

so how on earth should i be reading this game? I put you in my poe but i gave you plenty of space today and even said i think i more likely land my vote in the other 3. then i catch shit from stett who's basically thinking i don't wolf read you enough so i OFFER HER A LINE to help me understand her pov and clarify my own to help her find me so we can find common ground and i can understand where she was on you in relation to maple/lissa ender. where the fuck do i win lol, i dont have any fuckin answers in this game, i'm doing my absolute best to try to uncover every absofuckinlutely last possible nook and cranny of this game to solve it cause its fuckin hard, so i'm sorry if i can't lock clear you with our given flips but its just my view of the game

What pinged me is youu saying ladd is "very concernng" like i had commited some high crime against the crown when imo i am perfectly fine and findable from how i handled arftic claim and played d2/d3 and afaict yohr only point against me is that i pushed taffy (which like sure? But i was never gonna rask d1 unless i was there for eod).

Are you not concernwd how your whole PoE came into today pushing me? Does it feel like any of thrm has a good reason to w read me?

For the spoiler-

I can argue i should be above visor and maybe waza but tbh i dont really care cause like you said i dont think they are wolves. What really set me off is you saying i am very concerning cause i am like wat?

[pzelda]

The hardest thing for me to wrap my head around this game is that people were townreading taffy d1 when they were still within wolf range and yet today when they’ve been posting incredibly pure nobody noted this out until I read back and did it, and even now people still find them wolfy or 3p

Taffy and visor have been the two most pure posters today fmpov

(Ironically enough visor could be doing the reverse of what he expects from me, where he’s been ramping up as a wolf each day, but eh I’m gonna reward towny posts as they are so him and taffy can be top town for me)

I think I could use this post to explain why I'm so swingy a little bit. This is a good comment. I find it quite towny. It influenced my take on Visor too, because it looks like waza is a good Visor reader. That brings me closer towards a possible dya/ladd world rn. So, individual posts can change my reads a lot but I think I'm also more consistent with my longterm reads like always returning to more solid townreads after proving my doubts wrong.

Btw I don't think I had a solid read on dya or waza.

There are also so many hints at Visor being town that I just want to put him back in my towncore.

[ladd]

idk yall im making vibes reads cause tahts all i got the energy to put into thegame rn, i saw yall say zelda is like DOUBLE LOCK CLEAR off meta so poggywoggy thats awesome, i think my idivions of the list stands strong. im OMGUSING ladd today for hist readtmeant of my slot, im saying bennehs push on me being an arso is WILD and atp im not sure if hes serious about it or not

You voted me yesterday when i had yet to push you tho so that cannot possibly be the reason why you think i am a wolf

[Maple]

You voted me yesterday when i had yet to push you tho so that cannot possibly be the reason why you think i am a wolf

your vibes were fucked dawg i dont know what to tell you

[waza]

purely on your hypothetical? yes

that's not really an analog for this game though. if you want an analog for this game i'd need to make the following premise adjustments:

1) i did not really think from threadstate rask was a wolf and by the time he was elimmed i was CERTAIN he was flipping town up until gemma posted his reveal. my vote there was purely that killing a 0 poster was better than killing arcy or taffy and i wanted to
2) i did not really think the CWs were lock villas. i thought taffy was a poor elim because of the claim. i thought arctic was a poor elim cause his eod felt convict-y and townie and he was being defended by annika who i'd moved into my town while i was capped, and i no longer wanted to kill sunbae or annika based on how things unfolded at eod.

so if to adjust your premise:



and the answer to that is no. i'd have probably just eliminated arctic cause i like sunbae infinitely more and i'd rather have a small chance of sunbae showing up d2 than seeing arctic again even if i thought his eod was townie. there are too many variables ofc.

the most glaringly obvious and apropos variable of all--i highly doubt ANY town would be willing to have wagoned sunbae if he were in rask's position in this game at sod1. rask was 10000000000000% a shrug yeet, but i would put $10000 of my own money on the idea that people were more okay with it cause they figured he had a chance to be a rwstfo whereas with sunbae, they would be 1000000x more inclined to just say "he's clearly got something going on, i hope he's ok" and assume its NAI and give him the benefit of the doubt, so like, i don't think the hypothetical is really even possible, but if that is how it went down that's how i think it'd play out fmpov.

(also just tbc, this last paragraph is NOT shade at rask for being a rwstfo'r, i just think people are more willing to shrugyeet with that as a possibility. if it were sunbae they wouldn't even apply it as a metric, IMO)

Fair, thanks for answering


This is probably bad timing because I just saw Zelda feel better about visor based on what I said

But eh, I do maintain he’s posting really well today and even yesterday and probs even d1 lmao. I really like his comment on me ramping up, feels like he’s been actively evaluating me and that seems like a very valid/novel concern to have on me. Some other stuff too I like but it’s probs not as important to get into given he’s already townread

I wanted to hold back on this tinfoil for another day cos I do think that premature tinfoils or tinfoils in general can be damaging, especially if it’s v/v but I do think in this case the benefits my warrant the costs.

(In an ideal world I would have finished rereading d1 and maybe had my qualms cleared (or confirmed) and wouldn’t need this post. But idk if I’ll have time to so I think I’d rather just throw it out there

Yesterday when I was looking back at the rask wagon I was asking myself who was on the wagon that maybe shouldn’t have been there. I landed on visor and then lissa. I naked voted visor first for that reason then something changed my mind (I can’t remember what) and then I voted lissa and then went back to look at that eod. That’s when I got sidetracked by arctics eod and then forgot whatever I was doing lol prior

Anyway the fact that visor did land on visor is something that’s been bugging me. It could be for all the wrong reasons so that’s another reason why I figured I get it out now so visor has time to just say I’m wrong and call me an idiot if he’s town and that’s the world we are in. Tbh he probs would do the same as wolf but hopefully I can spot the difference.

Anyways the premise for this is that I assume that visor and rask are tight/close. I’ve always gotten that vibe from them, maybe I’m wrong if I am then this entire post doesn’t matter. But similarly to me and Ben I think visor is someone that usually wouldn’t vote out someone he’s really close with d1 unless there’s absolutely no option and even then i don’t know if he would (Ben just admitted he wouldn’t to sunbae and ngl If someone I was really tight with was in a similar situation I might not do so either. Fwiw I love rask and everyone in this game but yeah I’m being completely honest when I say there are some players I wouldn’t vote if they’re afk because of my own personal bias, that’s a bad way to play but it is what it is.) and I do remember playing a turbo with visor a long time ago where I do think he expresses similar habits to me and Ben in that regard to how he treats his Homies

Again that isn’t meant to be shade at visor or Ben, because I’m the same and admitting to it

But yeah when I take that into account plus the fact that the first voter on rask was Stett (who visor had been wary of the entire d1) I struggle to find reasons to justify how visor actually ended up on that wagon. That’s why when he made the post saying Ben and lissa are aware as wolves they should be voting rask, that’s why I called it ironic because that’s exactly what I was thinking applied to visor

When i supplement that with the fact he’s an incredibly good villager who had a track on him and presumably a lot of pull in this PL, I’m concerned why he didn’t die and Annika did. Visors own reaction to when he got the track himself was “gg I guess I’m dead tonight” but then when he did survive I didn’t really see him question why or evaluate his solving based on why wolves killed Annika instead (if he’s v) - maybe he did and it was internalized but I can only go off what I see in thread lol


Anyways I still maintain his posting has been purer than everyone aside for taffy and probs Zelda today (maybe tied with Zelda but lower than taffy) so yeah hopefully lissa is just a hit and none of this matters, but Incase it does matter I figured I’d get it out

[ladd]

Damn you are so villagery

Imo if visor is a wolf its with ender. Dont really think he is a wolf in any other scenario but i had the visor/ender world as maybe the most plausible team that wasnt just in lissa/maple/ender (i dont think this is the world to be clear)