Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

**Visor** · 05-06-2025, 15:39

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

what do you think of her latching onto the maple post about the implication that maple didn't rand town this game or whatever?

i dont even recall that post lmao lemme look it up

**annika** · 05-06-2025, 15:42

I think Visor is townie now too

so Visor/Taffy/Waza/Lissa/Sunbae five villas?

**waza** · 05-06-2025, 15:43

He also had the freeest layup to just wolf read me by riding the momentum of what everyone else has been doing and I don’t think he would pass that up

Or if he would he would probs try and defend or side with me in a way to get cred or maybe get on my good side

He’s done neither which I think is towny and the way he’s approaching me makes sense since his sr was Stett and I’m assuming doesn’t read me as being partnered with her so it makes sense why town!visor wouldn’t have much to say on me

**Visor** · 05-06-2025, 15:43

Originally Posted by waza

Vibe

He seems to believe what he’s saying

I think he approaches wolfing the same way I do and he’s not really playing how I would as a wolf

Plus last game here he was a wolf and I remember him noting he was really busy and it came across in a way that he wasn’t happy with what his output was in that game as a result of the business

So I kinda expected him to be all fired up and be ready to snow everyone if he randed wolf here which imo his opening posts didn’t really line up with

Ironically enough his recent posts fit more into that mould but I think they’re towny town posts and not towny wolf posts

i was incredibly unhappy with how that last game went

i was working very long hours at the time and i realised after d1 that i just can't play werewolf if i am working those hours because its not fair to anyone to have someone who can only play like i was there

so i haven't played until my hours settled down

i don't think i would be fired up, especially in a 50 post game, but i would be determined to put in a good showing if i randed wolf for sure

**Visor** · 05-06-2025, 15:54

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

what do you think of her latching onto the maple post about the implication that maple didn't rand town this game or whatever?

this doesn't seem like anything to me - its a little awkward, but really doen't mean anything to me

**nebjiamn** · 05-06-2025, 16:21

vote: Enderwiggin

i've got moderate townleans on lissa/taffy/stett/visor. of those, i actually think i'm most confident about visor. the others feel right but they are also based off things that are light (taffy, here's your rhyme scheme). I feel like with visor's posts its more than just vibes/easy clearances so even though he's probably got the widest range of the 4 i feel best about that one since there's more concrete stuff to attach to it

waza is kinda murky for me but i've liked his last few hours or whatever

ladd is pure null
haru is ~near pure null with a moderate concern
maple is the wolfy side of null. just kind of feels like a bit of RME there when i judge their game entry vs lissa's when they share similar context. this might be unfair and i acknowledge that but i don't really care.

annika is an interesting one for me. i'm probably going to leave her be for now but i highly dislike her getting hung up on the manti post. that feels somewhat unreasonable and silly and the fact that she so quickly conceded the point being irrelevant when lissa asked her about it sorta tells me she didn't think too deeply about it, but its exactly the kind of read you WOULD think deeply about if you were the one to bring it up?

i also dislike her towning haru here in her core and replacing me (im mad cause bad (but sincerely, that reads strange to me)) out of it.

i'm sympathetic to visor's idea that i could be reading too much into the manti piece. also, if manti is a wolf, that is maybe a good look for annika rather than a 'guilty conscience' type of find on a partner, but it just doesn't strike me as an annika-y thing to look into.

my ender vote is somewhat a meme cause i feel like i always vote him around this time on d1 in org games but its also kinda not a meme. idk we'll figure it out eventually.

i'm off to the office today and i prob need to tone it down on posts anyway, so have fun piecing me up over this while i'm gone, but basically where i stand above

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 17:02

So, catching up.
p1: waza v, annika v, benneh (if nebijamm is benneh) might be v, but their activity seems little artificial, little bit like busy work I don't know who Stett is, v reads are basically for throwing v reads in early, visor and lissa not so towny so far
p2: lissa still not very towny imho, they're getting weird free town reads, I like sunbae's entrance - straight to business, probably v
p3 (and p4): friends chatting - I can't take a whole lot from that atm, taffy looks slightly w for their entrance and their lines of questioning stuff, there's some negativity, weird reasons for voting benneh and they were rooting out some of the early v leans of other players. All wolfy tbh, could be w/w with Maple for that bomb inventor comment.
p5: I skipped some long comments from waza, I should return to them and read them properly to see if they hold any water. Stett (didistetter, I understand now) can be villa lean for wanting to eat? The rest of that post is fairly weak and quite defensive tho. Pointing out fair enough probably nai but I also feel like taking that v lean back.
p6: Visor's not towny here, I kind of want to see townreads from him. Most of his stuff is negative. The single townread is ok and I think it makes annika quite likely town for a half-stupid reason. If Visor is wolf he probably is trying to pocket them. If he's town, his reads tended to be good.
p7: Also Annika not townreading Visor for that is a good look.

Villas - Annika, waza, sunbae
Villa leans - Benneh
Nulls - Ender, ladd
Negative vibes - Stett, Visor, Lissa, Maple
Wolf leans - taffy

vote: Totally not Taffy

Ok, I know I haven't provided any explanation for some of these, I might do it later or just answer any questions.

**Visor** · 05-06-2025, 17:14

annika is an interesting one for me. i'm probably going to leave her be for now but i highly dislike her getting hung up on the manti post. that feels somewhat unreasonable and silly and the fact that she so quickly conceded the point being irrelevant when lissa asked her about it sorta tells me she didn't think too deeply about it, but its exactly the kind of read you WOULD think deeply about if you were the one to bring it up?

i'm not unsympathetic to this view - just that it seemed like a mild detour to me and not somethign that she was really actively trying to drive, like a thought that occured i guess

on that note, i guess its the same with the waza townread thing

so maybe given its a pattern i should think on it more

**Visor** · 05-06-2025, 17:16

Originally Posted by pzelda

So, catching up.
p1: waza v, annika v, benneh (if nebijamm is benneh) might be v, but their activity seems little artificial, little bit like busy work I don't know who Stett is, v reads are basically for throwing v reads in early, visor and lissa not so towny so far
p2: lissa still not very towny imho, they're getting weird free town reads, I like sunbae's entrance - straight to business, probably v
p3 (and p4): friends chatting - I can't take a whole lot from that atm, taffy looks slightly w for their entrance and their lines of questioning stuff, there's some negativity, weird reasons for voting benneh and they were rooting out some of the early v leans of other players. All wolfy tbh, could be w/w with Maple for that bomb inventor comment.
p5: I skipped some long comments from waza, I should return to them and read them properly to see if they hold any water. Stett (didistetter, I understand now) can be villa lean for wanting to eat? The rest of that post is fairly weak and quite defensive tho. Pointing out fair enough probably nai but I also feel like taking that v lean back.
p6: Visor's not towny here, I kind of want to see townreads from him. Most of his stuff is negative. The single townread is ok and I think it makes annika quite likely town for a half-stupid reason. If Visor is wolf he probably is trying to pocket them. If he's town, his reads tended to be good.
p7: Also Annika not townreading Visor for that is a good look.

Villas - Annika, waza, sunbae
Villa leans - Benneh
Nulls - Ender, ladd
Negative vibes - Stett, Visor, Lissa, Maple
Wolf leans - taffy

vote: Totally not Taffy

Ok, I know I haven't provided any explanation for some of these, I might do it later or just answer any questions.

villagery post m'lord

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 17:26

I think I should reread my negative vibes and my sole wolf lean first before reevaluating my townleans. One wolf among dya, rask and Arctic is quite possible too. Let's talk about my reads a little bit more.

waza - mostly an activity read, it feels like they're trying to solve the game and get it moving
sunbae - mostly the entrance
Annika - both their activity and them throwing reads around without anyone asking, plus everyone townreading them - they almost feel thread spewed
Benneh - mostly the activity, It looks like he's been throwing stuff at wall trying what would stick.
Ender - A little bit awkward, but there's not a whole lot a wolfiness in their posts. I should reread
Ladd - tbh I can't recall a single post being ai. People call him town for some reason and I recall that being meta, but I also recall Ladd being really helpful. I think giving him more time is the best possible option
Stett - tbh I have contradicting thoughts on this person. They're def among more laidback players around but I also lack more actual content.
Visor - feels quite negative and deconstructing the game atm. But tbf it might be him gathering intel to become constructive later on. It depends whether he delivers or not.
Lissa - I don't know about the townreads. They were just chilling in the thread talking about poof. The way lissa is getting townread almos feels like a wolf townread by town and other wolves jumping on the wave to me.
Maple - Interactions with Lissa and their posts being just shiptoasting. I know that's not a tell, tho. Feels less like an actual wolf than Lissa to me.
Taffy - I think I put my reasons in the previous post. Let's add that their posts felt a little bit forced disconnected from the thread. Why post ten times in a row at this stage in this way when no one's around?

All of these are early reads and I expect to see myself flip most of them once or twice d1(and get wolfread for that).
Also, It's my first game in I don't know how long. Maybe two years? And I randed mafia in that last game methinks.

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 17:35

Ok Visor has no reason trying to pocket me. I'm an easy target. That makes it more difficult to have him in wolf vibes.

Also, my secret scares are that waza is doing information overload or that benneh is powerwolfing. But if that's a case, i feel like he would go harder overall.
Annika is my only stronger town for now and I probably won't flip on them. Hell, I might even ride or die with that read.
Sunbae is my only strong gut impression.

**Visor** · 05-06-2025, 17:39

Originally Posted by pzelda

Ok Visor has no reason trying to pocket me. I'm an easy target. That makes it more difficult to have him in wolf vibes.

Also, my secret scares are that waza is doing information overload or that benneh is powerwolfing. But if that's a case, i feel like he would go harder overall.
Annika is my only stronger town for now and I probably won't flip on them. Hell, I might even ride or die with that read.
Sunbae is my only strong gut impression.

well theres plenty of reasons i could try to pocket you

but i liked the thoughts in your post (particularly noting that i hadn't really townread anyone)

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 17:49

Originally Posted by Visor

well theres plenty of reasons i could try to pocket you

but i liked the thoughts in your post (particularly noting that i hadn't really townread anyone)

So, why do you think Benneh has a different read? I feel slightly lazy responding to his wall in english atm, but that's one weird towncore and I would like to see the rest explained.
Also him spending most of the post on Annika and then meh voting ender just to vote I guess. Also, there's this lazy whatever energy to the rest of the post and the case on Annika is quite detailed and well laid out.
Tbh It might be an excellent point and it definitely goes against the thread which is good. But it's also what gives me some low energy power wolfing vibes from Benneh.
What's your opinion?

**nebjiamn** · 05-06-2025, 17:52

Originally Posted by pzelda

Ok Visor has no reason trying to pocket me. I'm an easy target. That makes it more difficult to have him in wolf vibes.

Also, my secret scares are that waza is doing information overload or that benneh is powerwolfing. But if that's a case, i feel like he would go harder overall.
Annika is my only stronger town for now and I probably won't flip on them. Hell, I might even ride or die with that read.
Sunbae is my only strong gut impression.

elaborate on the bolded if you can? what makes you think these things

your reads (not just bolded, but all of them) appear quite surface level (i mean this in a non-derogatory way) but i'd love to see how you piece some of this together if you put a little more into them beyond that. everyone you've talked about is an exceedingly elite wolf -- which is not meant to offer up scares or anything -- but it does leave some of my curiosity wanting in how you are parsing the game.

namely, your posts seem decently townyso far. but i feel like i'd want to see more how you're parsing level 1/2/3 before i factor in integrating your own reads and my own though (e.g. we are somewhat at odds on your annika and lissa reads but that's ok)

and if there's nothing to offer up on that front yet that's fine but i guess just know i'm curious for later when/if it ever does

**nebjiamn** · 05-06-2025, 17:57

Maple - Interactions with Lissa and their posts being just shiptoasting. I know that's not a tell, tho. Feels less like an actual wolf than Lissa to me.

i'm also very curious about this one

**waza** · 05-06-2025, 18:11

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

vote: Enderwiggin

i've got moderate townleans on lissa/taffy/stett/visor. of those, i actually think i'm most confident about visor. the others feel right but they are also based off things that are light (taffy, here's your rhyme scheme). I feel like with visor's posts its more than just vibes/easy clearances so even though he's probably got the widest range of the 4 i feel best about that one since there's more concrete stuff to attach to it

waza is kinda murky for me but i've liked his last few hours or whatever

ladd is pure null
haru is ~near pure null with a moderate concern
maple is the wolfy side of null. just kind of feels like a bit of RME there when i judge their game entry vs lissa's when they share similar context. this might be unfair and i acknowledge that but i don't really care.

annika is an interesting one for me. i'm probably going to leave her be for now but i highly dislike her getting hung up on the manti post. that feels somewhat unreasonable and silly and the fact that she so quickly conceded the point being irrelevant when lissa asked her about it sorta tells me she didn't think too deeply about it, but its exactly the kind of read you WOULD think deeply about if you were the one to bring it up?

i also dislike her towning haru here in her core and replacing me (im mad cause bad (but sincerely, that reads strange to me)) out of it.

i'm sympathetic to visor's idea that i could be reading too much into the manti piece. also, if manti is a wolf, that is maybe a good look for annika rather than a 'guilty conscience' type of find on a partner, but it just doesn't strike me as an annika-y thing to look into.

my ender vote is somewhat a meme cause i feel like i always vote him around this time on d1 in org games but its also kinda not a meme. idk we'll figure it out eventually.

i'm off to the office today and i prob need to tone it down on posts anyway, so have fun piecing me up over this while i'm gone, but basically where i stand above

Fwiw I’ve defs seen Annika do that before

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 18:17

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

elaborate on the bolded if you can? what makes you think these things

your reads (not just bolded, but all of them) appear quite surface level (i mean this in a non-derogatory way) but i'd love to see how you piece some of this together if you put a little more into them beyond that. everyone you've talked about is an exceedingly elite wolf -- which is not meant to offer up scares or anything -- but it does leave some of my curiosity wanting in how you are parsing the game.

namely, your posts seem decently townyso far. but i feel like i'd want to see more how you're parsing level 1/2/3 before i factor in integrating your own reads and my own though (e.g. we are somewhat at odds on your annika and lissa reads but that's ok)

and if there's nothing to offer up on that front yet that's fine but i guess just know i'm curious for later when/if it ever does

Ok, I'll try.
I know most of you. I even played some Mashes with Lissa and others few years back. I know many of you can be scary wolves and I tend to get paranoid d1. That means I often end up being hedgy and in most of my more recent games I wasn't very active and got chopped d1.
I admit it's a little bit of meta, but I know Visor can push me as a wolf. He always managed to find me when I was a wolf too. So, him trying to pocket me would be a new thing. Also him calling that post villagery for that reason alone would be a stupid move. He could do it for later town cred or he could ignore it or question some of my points as a wolf. Actually I think that would be the most reasonable thing to do from a wolf's point of view. I would either explain them well or I would get lost and he would have an ideal opportunity to call me a wolf.

Btw You're correct. My reads are shallow and I'm trying to make that transparent.

Your powerwolfing. See that might be another shard of meta. I know you're great at wolfing. But I don't really recall your style. I can't really base my takes on your meta. That's where the idea started. But in context of this game it works as well. You've been active and pushing other players. But I can't see the direction you're pushing in - your agenda. You're not exactly pushing a certain player in order to start a wagon on them. There were basically no wolfreads on you to uproot, so that's a difficult part to read. I'm not sure if I'm explaining myself well here, but something in your posts is murky and it could be possibly wolfy (like you uprooting Annika townreads with your counter take), but it's not quite there and you're not quite in the position to run the thread. Also, It might be too early for all of this.

So, Sunbae has this masterful entrance and the rest of his posts are all chill vibes, mostly fluffing with others. That's my impression without rereading them at least. There might be more content in them. But I think it's enough. There's a strong first impression Sun needed to share and then they just wanted to hang out. Frankly the newer posts in the thread weren't super ai. nd Sunbae just dialing back gave me a really good gut feel. They didn't feel forced to solve or fabricate more reads.

Ok, I hope this explains my thoughts a little bit.

**waza** · 05-06-2025, 18:17

I think an ender vote will probs be the least info providing vote lol, especially since he’s probs v imo

I get why you might do it, and if part of it I’m guessing is the hopes it will drive him to be more productive or readable fypo. But from memory I don’t think it’s gonna work, he usually has his mind made up on whatever meme and gimmick he’s gonna do d1 and tends to stick to it but eventually later on in the game after a couple of days starts to pick up and play properly.

One might call me a hypocrite since my vote is on rask, but the difference is that rask is a wolf and meowted

**nebjiamn** · 05-06-2025, 18:21

I’m gonna rescind the inkling of a town lean I had on Zelda for their posts just now

not a scum lean but I think I am making a fundamental mistake just calling them town for their tone and focus so far since the idea comes from a place of ignorance

this is more for me than anyone else

**waza** · 05-06-2025, 18:23

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I’m gonna rescind the inkling of a town lean I had on Zelda for their posts just now

not a scum lean but I think I am making a fundamental mistake just calling them town for their tone and focus so far since the idea comes from a place of ignorance

this is more for me than anyone else

That’s probs the correct play

But imma tr them anyways lol, a couple of things here and there I noticed that I think a wolf in their position wouldn’t fake

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 18:24

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

i'm also very curious about this one

Btw is Manti? That would explain their style. Also, I kind of wish not knowing. It might be cool to work without that meta. Maybe it's because Maple started that conversation and Lissa reacted to it without trying to do anything else. All of that might be just two old friends having a good time or Lissa having a lighthearted conversation with her wolfbuddy. Because it's easier to interact like this without the interaction feeling forced. It's a good way to establish interaction w/w. Also you can use it to townlean each other later for a good chat later on.
And Lissa being more wolfy is because of her previous entrance, which on its own is nai, but my take here is that after returning to the thread and finding some actual content, she would be more likely to interact with reads in a meaningful way. Instead she decided to fluff with Maple.

**ladd** · 05-06-2025, 18:25

Originally Posted by nebjiamn

I’m gonna rescind the inkling of a town lean I had on Zelda for their posts just now

not a scum lean but I think I am making a fundamental mistake just calling them town for their tone and focus so far since the idea comes from a place of ignorance

this is more for me than anyone else

they seem pretty out of their wolfrange to me tbh

stett's posting doesnt make much sense to me, prolly not in a good way

**pzelda** · 05-06-2025, 18:31

Benneh I recall playing that Hydra game with you. I was a hydra with UFO and you were one with Pizza. We killed you n1. At least that's my recollection.

**ladd** · 05-06-2025, 18:32