Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[Visor]

Talk to me about ladd arctic

[ladd]

It's not just that I disagree with your reads but rather you aren't willing to even so much as look in the direction of where I think wolves are

I looked at sunbae, the reasons for voting him seem incrediby silly for the most part. my own read is that he is slightly >rand to be v but I just flat out disagree with the reads on him so that makes me inclined to shield him


visor i could see being a wolf more than sunbae, i do think some of his switch of reads have been a bit opportunistic and i havent vibed with his posts in the second half as much as the first half - i wouldnt even rule out him being w/w with taffy. he is prolly out of my v reads tbh



idr who else u wolf read, think the third was me - i looked at ladd, pure iso, obvious villager, nice looking

[Totally not Taffy]

like people brushed over this but seriously, WHY do you not care about reading Taffy when she's in your PoE and also the top wagon??

(this is shade but also a genuine question)

Anyway... I don't know what I should be doing here because I don't really want to harp on about how I don't like the state of the game even though that's how I feel. You guys know each other better than I do and you are better players than me so I should just accept that a world where all of you guys are incorrectly pushing each other isn't that likely. But it's still just nagging at me, because if all my individual reads on the consensus POE players are correct, then I think that is the world we are living in. And I feel kind of powerless to prove it right now because people don't find my arguments convincing. I can't even blame you because hell, I don't really find them convincing either, I feel like a lot of it is intuition. And I don't think I went a very good way about expressing my suspicion on Visor. But that doesn't make him town, nor does it make my other reads wrong. The other reason I feel powerless to do much is because of the interpersonal dynamics here people are unwilling to vote out certain people on Day 1 (i.e. "give them a day"). But in truth, I'd happily vote out ladd today over anyone in the consensus PoE. I think his only saving grace is if Taffy is a wolf, but I don't really see it. That said, I might vote her anyway if nobody wants anything else - just for this reason. This will almost surely get me wolfread tomorrow, but I don't really know what choice I have if I'm just voting amongst people I think are town except to vote the one who I townread less than the others

Wait am I top wagon?

Because Ladd's post gave me the impression that I might have been but no longer was

We should go back to taffy

Imo

@Gemma @nebjiamn can either of you give me a votecount

Taffy (22)

[ladd]

Wait am I top wagon?

Because Ladd's post gave me the impression that I might have been but no longer was


@Gemma @nebjiamn can either of you give me a votecount

Taffy (22)

i think sunbae is top wagon but not 100% sure


also zelda is genuinely the clearest villager after benneh, he is never a wolf




i tend to agree dya doesnt pursues this line against sunbae as a wolf

[Totally not Taffy]

Also, I think dya is definitely town - the post where they say they wouldn't vote Sunbae on day 1 if he was a wolf felt extremely genuine to me. if you are a town and suspect someone you like sometimes you can't stop yourself from pushing there if you think it's best for the game. but as a wolf you can be much more liberal with your options on day 1. i wholeheartedly believe this is what's going on here even if i'm a fool to do so
@Sunbae if you do end up coming back, would you agree? If I told you me and dya are 2 villas, where would you look? You can still talk to me about Visor. I think you could be town

You are contradicting yourself here Arctic

You say Dyachei is town for not wanting to vote Sunbae D1 even though you go on to explain that it's towny to vote out your friends if you think they're wolves but wolves can afford to be more liberal.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

Taffy (23)

[Visor]

I would kill either taffy or Annika over sunbae

[annika]

My thoughts on Ladd is that they either end up being an outted wolf or an obvious villager D2 or D3. My 2 cents.

personally I think he's villagery, he might get more obvious on D2 or D3 idk lol but seems fine for now

I'm acknowledging he has the type of playstyle I get pocketed by, but... he still has good posts where he's like "we should vote Taffy" at the moment when Sunbae was getting pressured and towntelling. feels like he townread her but didn't outright say it (probably because he wasnt that confident) which rings townie imo (451). like I kinda got the sense he was thinking "no I really don't think this is the right direction" when he posted that

I think Taffy is town too tho, pending a reread ig LOL because I'm losing confidence in that read uhm. actually nvm I might rescind my TR on Taffy until I reread her

also weh I'm gonna need to save posts if there's no postcap lift at EoD, so I'll be back later

[Visor]

I looked at sunbae, the reasons for voting him seem incrediby silly for the most part. my own read is that he is slightly >rand to be v but I just flat out disagree with the reads on him so that makes me inclined to shield him


visor i could see being a wolf more than sunbae, i do think some of his switch of reads have been a bit opportunistic and i havent vibed with his posts in the second half as much as the first half - i wouldnt even rule out him being w/w with taffy. he is prolly out of my v reads tbh



idr who else u wolf read, think the third was me - i looked at ladd, pure iso, obvious villager, nice looking

Et tu, ladd?

[annika]

I would kill either taffy or Annika over sunbae

v/v/v

what do you think of Maple?

[Arctic]

Talk to me about ladd arctic

i don't really have anything else to say

i think other players have been townier and i disagree with his reads

You are contradicting yourself here Arctic

You say Dyachei is town for not wanting to vote Sunbae D1 even though you go on to explain that it's towny to vote out your friends if you think they're wolves but wolves can afford to be more liberal.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

Taffy (23)

there is not a contradiction here, i'm saying as a wolf you can choose to make up a wolfread on a different villager or push an existing villager wagon. but dya basically started the sunbae train. with what they're saying, i fully believe this wouldn't happen if they were a wolf

[ladd]

You are contradicting yourself here Arctic

You say Dyachei is town for not wanting to vote Sunbae D1 even though you go on to explain that it's towny to vote out your friends if you think they're wolves but wolves can afford to be more liberal.

What is it you're actually trying to say?

Taffy (23)

idk maybe i am tunneled but wolfy post chief

Et tu, ladd?

[didistetter]

i will prob move my vote to taffy shortly--i don't come out of this string of posts tring annika but she's given me enough content to wana parse through and let simmer a bit and see what happens this morning. also i'm a bit weirded out the wagon on annika actually took off -- which sucks cause i thnk i'm tring both of the players that joined me? problems for another version of me maybe

hm.

---

also yeah yeah waza's cap post was towny i'm dropping that push ig

[didistetter]

i think there's exactly one wolf in ben/annika/ladd

i'm not really sure which lol

i don't buy into annika's methodology but i kinda see what waza means with potential lazy town.
ben like... sounds good, but has some micro stuff that just hits me strange. Like the way he keps hedging on me for weird reasons (like how i joined him on annika???? when i had been sussing annika??) that feel like forced paranoia
ladd would mostly just be if both benben and anni (and taffy) are town and wolf team is less front and center.


Maybe i'm stupid but i think arctic's been kinda obvitown so i rlly don't get the general shade towards him lol

vote: unvote

[Visor]

v/v/v

what do you think of Maple?

They are posting a lot of theory stuff compared to solving which is probably villagery for them

They are just doing their thing, I'll look at em tomorrow but I don't really see much that interests me there either way

[Totally not Taffy]

idk maybe i am tunneled but wolfy post chief

No it's not.

Your turn again

Taffy (24)

[Totally not Taffy]

This's been on my mind recently, but I guess there's no better place to talk about this than an Org game! I've honestly felt like I've been in a bit of a rut for ww. It's like, I've had one good village game in the past year, and that's about it. Coming back to the game, I knew I would be a lot worse at it than I was before, but it's hard to get better again. Even in like Bean game I was very successful at being a mediator, bridging gaps between players, pointing out inconsistencies in peoples's reasonings and trying to conclude v/v fights reasonably. But when it came down to the wire Apoc (who i HATE grrrr) was right: i simply did not have enough threadpull (or confidence) to pull the trigger on what I beleived to be right (saving newcomb, and eliminating one of my EVIL girlfriends).

It seems most games that's the issues. I never have confidence in myself and my reads, and while I am able to fairly profiecently work with other people -- either helping other people form reads, or to crunch information in thread -- I either lack the confidence to close things out or I present myself wishy-washily and people don't trust me in the end (such as the case in the Tarot game lylo).

Conversly, I get back into wolfing, and it's easier than ever! I've randed wolf a lot of times this year, and basically every single time I just wash the village in a different stupid way (other than the hydra game but that was hydras so it wasn't my fault). Like in the shots mash on d2 I put every single living wolf on a single line in my reads in the confirmed tier. Every single one! And people just don't punish me. I can lie so easily, convince people to go along with the most rediculous things, manipulate people INTO things and then 3 days later manipulate them OUT. I just don't get it! There's always been desparity between the quality of my v and w game, but the gulf at this point is immense.

So how do I get better at playing village? I cooperate, I mediate, I try to drive up the bar where I can. But I'm obviously missing something.

@Maple is this a pasta?

Taffy (25)

[ladd]

Maybe i'm stupid but i think arctic's been kinda obvitown so i rlly don't get the general shade towards him lol

they def made villagery posts over the last couple of pages

dya is also a villager, feel pretty strongly about this one. good read, benneh

[ladd]

it's late and i gotta wake up early, so i'll prob follow a bit from phone but may disappear any moment

gl friendos

[pzelda]

I'm not super sure on Arctic, but I dislike how they project frustration with the thread not mindmelding with their reads. That throws me off. I probably wouldn't vote them for that alone, tho. It might be genuine. They have some reads and if town they would like to change the thread state. If town Arctic should more focus on reads which are common with other players and start building their town tbh. I'm glad they at least seem to be open to discuss their reads? The thick formatting doesn't help tbh.
@Visor I guess you explained it earlier, but try to sell Taffy/Annika over Bae to the rest of us. Esp the former one. What do you think about their recent activity? Based on your post you don't find it towny. So, what's wrong with it in your eyes?

Annika, I admit, feels a little bit disconnected from the thread.

[didistetter]

See the good news about not being confident at all in my reads rn:

if annika's a wolf she probs N1s dya
if ben's a wolf he probs N1s ladd
if ladd's a wolf he probs N1s benben

so no matter how it shakes out ol stetty gets to live to d2 and actually reeval a bit

for now

Vote: Totally not Taffy

if taffy is town annika is probs the n1k and there are 2 wolves in ben/ladd/lissa :3

[pzelda]

Arctic, let me explain Visor and Ladd meta to you (It could have changed).
Visor tends to be a survivor and a late game player as both alignments. He usually isn't your obvious town and he's just a damn good wolf. If you managed to catch him, post-game credit to you. Most people townreads him for several reasons. Ofc most of us are lazy to really dig into him. Wolves tend to tr villa Visor because it's really frightening to go against him. But I don't think that many people are super good at reading or catching him.
Ladd can be an obvious town. He got killed N1 many times. So, I guess people can get little lazy here as well. His alignment usually became clear later on.

I'm just trying to give you something to work with if you're town. Feel free to ignore it, if you dislike meta.

[Maple]

@Maple is this a pasta?

Taffy (25)

unfortunately not lol

[pzelda]

See the good news about not being confident at all in my reads rn:

if annika's a wolf she probs N1s dya
if ben's a wolf he probs N1s ladd
if ladd's a wolf he probs N1s benben

so no matter how it shakes out ol stetty gets to live to d2 and actually reeval a bit

for now

Vote: Totally not Taffy

if taffy is town annika is probs the n1k and there are 2 wolves in ben/ladd/lissa :3

No, this is wrong. It's wrong I find it towny. You're just wifoming yourself. Also, why did you pick taffy in the end?

[Totally not Taffy]

unfortunately not lol

All my hugs (I have no advice worth giving)

I'm liking your post
Would you like to mason (tomorrow, bc it's getting late and I prefer trying to read as much as I can over trying to be active when I'm this tired)?

Taffy (26)

[Totally not Taffy]

All my hugs (I have no advice worth giving)

I'm liking your post
Would you like to mason (tomorrow, bc it's getting late and I prefer trying to read as much as I can over trying to be active when I'm this tired)?

Taffy (26)

*posts

[Visor]

Pzelda you gotta stop posting it's a 50 post cap

[didistetter]

No, this is wrong. It's wrong I find it towny. You're just wifoming yourself. Also, why did you pick taffy in the end?

Some of taffy's q's on his reentrace didn't feel solvy and more felt like.. Qs for the sake of Qs. (466467526) but also my gut kinda says "ehhhh i think he flips town lol." But i'm kinda w/ arctic in that threadstate feels slightly wrong and im struggling to square what that means for a team. Might mean the afk is a wolf, but that's weak sauce. Might mean wolves have good control or town is just struggling to find the solve/build unity rn.

Basically, i kiiiiiinda think taffy might flip town, but i'd be hard pressed to correctly ID and vote the wolf/wolves in ben/ladd/lissa, and voting there when maf NK N1 in most worlds seems massively suboptimal.

No it's not very fair of me to use the flip of someone i kinda think is v as a baromater to solve annika/ben/ladd. Yes i feel bad about it. No I don't have a strong wolfread i feel confident in pushing rn.

[annika]

All my hugs (I have no advice worth giving)

I'm liking your post
Would you like to mason (tomorrow, bc it's getting late and I prefer trying to read as much as I can over trying to be active when I'm this tired)?

Taffy (26)

@taffy the day ends in like two hours

[annika]

er. oops. sorry I meant @Totally not Taffy

SORRY OTHER TAFFY

[Totally not Taffy]

@taffy the day ends in like two hours

Yes. At 2am, and I had 5 hours of sleep last night.

I want to try to stay up bc I'd like to move my vote somewhere I believe in
And as I said, I'm going to prioritise reading over interacting at this time

But if you'd like to sway me with a great scumcase I am eager to hear it

Taffy (27) I'm not counting the typo