Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[annika]

Yes. At 2am, and I had 5 hours of sleep last night.

I want to try to stay up bc I'd like to move my vote somewhere I believe in
And as I said, I'm going to prioritise reading over interacting at this time

But if you'd like to sway me with a great scumcase I am eager to hear it

Taffy (27) I'm not counting the typo

oh no you should get some rest/focus on what you want! I was just worried you didnt know because you said you wanted to mason with Maple tomorrow, but ig you meant like D2 not IRL tomorrow

[Totally not Taffy]

oh no you should get some rest/focus on what you want! I was just worried you didnt know because you said you wanted to mason with Maple tomorrow, but ig you meant like D2 not IRL tomorrow

Yeah but if there's a chance I get yeeted today I want to be here lol
Who are you voting atm?

Taffy (28)

[annika]

Yeah but if there's a chance I get yeeted today I want to be here lol
Who are you voting atm?

Taffy (28)

...your mason :D

I explained it in 503 and 505 if you wanna take a peek, her treatment of you was one of the things that bothered me

wbu?

[Sunbae]

Here's where I'm at:

I believe didistetter is a villager almost always because I follow the background train of thought that's happening between posts. The section of the game people were saying was erractic/awkward/stilted/whatever from didistetter were posts that were scattered but I could see how they came about. The point on my reread that I locked it in was the annika/maple being a difference check post. I could see how someone trying to piece things together would see the posts surrounding that and think “if a -> then b -> and if b then c -> oh its a difference check” even if those points don't really make a ton of sense or have to be accurate. I'm explaining this one a bit more because I've been asked about it. This is the type of read that I am almost always correct on but people never understand and that's because I'm bad at articulating it.

I believe Ladd is a villager based off of posting. The interaction with Waza, the pushing of Taffy, the comments about Ben (Neb). In the instance I'm wrong about Ladd then he's a wolf with both Waza and Ben BUT I don't think the way the day has shook out he is therefore I think he is always a villager.

I think Pzelda is always a villager based on posting and solving. Just pure. Not much else to it.

I think Lissa is a villager based on her relief, her return stint of posting, and the way everyone just wrote her off as a villager quickly. She is not posting like someone who had gotten a third consecutive wolf rand and her enjoyment is palpable. Additionally, I tend to think when people start calling someone threadspewed on day 1 they are almost always just town. So all of those things combined make me lock in V.


Those are my “there should be 0 wolves” tier.


The next tier are the “There should be one wolf in here but only one” tier. It consists of Neb (ben), Waza, and Dyachei. All three of them are pushing me for poo poo reasons (which is fine, I've pushed people for poo poo reasons before!) and sifting through which are having brain farts and which are opportunistic can be hard but I landed on dya being the opportunistic one. This is due to multiple factors:

1. I do not think the entire wolf teams plan would be to band together and do this. I considered it, but it just doesn't seem worth it very much? Additionally, the way they are building up each other (telling everyone to raise them in reads lists, clearing each other, etc) to pile on here when in that world they have at least 5 possible villa chops on the table for them seems nonsensical.

2. Outside of their stuff on me people seem to be town reading them. Ladd called Ben a 100% villager. Ladd said Waza will have 0 votes. Ladd has called Dya a villager. Pzelda has called Dya a villager. Lissa has called Ben a villager. Essentially, in order ofr them to be wolves together they'd have to be fooling everyone and I think that's less likely than it being mostly villagers who are wrong on me but in a way that makes the rest of the game find them villagery.

3. Individually and ignoring me I find that Ben is the towniest. I thought he was posing good questions, striking a good balance between attacking and defending people, adjusting reads, etc. He's also been called a strong villa read by others. Signs point to villa.

4. Waza seems to believe the case vs me. I personally thought the line of “high crime of not knowing the MU game schedule” was funny btw but nobody else did :(. I don't really agree with anything in the case at all at any level but that doesn't mean he doesn't believe it. And Im biased!

5. I find dyas “i wouldnt vote you as a wolf” nonsensical. I feel like that's the best time to vote me and a pile on target is pretty ideal in fact! Additionally, I feel like I am able to find dya pretty well in a lot of games we are v/v and it's just not happening here. Not just about me but in the ways they are approaching other slots as well. I briefly talked about it already (its not defensive pzelda its just thoughts!) but the way Dya interacted about Taffy didn't sit right to me. And the way Dya boosted Ben felt W/v to annika (as in wolf dya wanting v annika to focus on people that have a chance to die instead of v Ben because they are V targets). I also don't find “you OMGUS me” really in line with vDya because I think vDya would be like “oh hey, we're both here let's see if we can find each other”.

Now, I recognize that people have Dya V but I just feel they are wrong here and I'm going to trust myself! So that's why I think that group is where it's at.


Then you have the next tier which is “These are people that could be wolves but aren't with other people that could also be wolves”

Annika could be a wolf but is not a wolf if Dya or Maple or Waza or Ben are. Which given I think there's exactly one in Dya/Waza/Ben makes me lean Annika v.

Visor could be a wolf but I don't think is one if Arctic or Ender or Taffy are. The way Arctic shaded me for having Visor as a concern but not being worried about the thread not having Visor as a wolf isn't w/w imo as the biggest one.

Maple could be a wolf but isn't one with Annika


So that group of people I just want to give some space to and see how the next little bit shakes out because it'll be easier to sort later.

That leaves Arctic, Rask, Taffy, and Ender as my pool of candidates remaining. And add in Dya from earlier and that's where I'm at.

Now, Arctic asked me where I'd be if I was told Arctic/Dya were v/v. I would shift to Taffy and Ender today and then expect Maple to be another.

[Sunbae]

and now ive really overdone it

if i get got aint anything i could do about it. ive given reads, explained them, and broken down the entire game state from my pov. im not saying its right just "heres where my heads at" is all one can do and if it aint good enough then so be it


tata, im sticking my vote where it is cause its my best wolf read

[Totally not Taffy]

...your mason :D

I explained it in 503 and 505 if you wanna take a peek, her treatment of you was one of the things that bothered me

wbu?

Maple's posts give me the impression of someone who is purposely trying to bait investigatives and I think it's towny
We did wolf together in the previous game here if you want to go and look at it

You'll also understand then where Ladd's read (that Visor immediately jived with) comes from
I was suspected by Cape (not Capage) that game D1 for what he called "narrating what happened rather than saying why it's wolfy"
and he was correct that I was a wolf so it makes sense that now ppl think that's a wolf tell for me
when I personally believe it's just how I post when catching up
Lissa is also correct that scumreading and SPK early D1 is a thing I'd do as a wolf
bc it's fun and it often gets you townread so win/win
which was a surprising take bc I don't think Lissa and I have ever played together before

Anyway enough rambling
I'm currently voting Benneh but I'm going to move before EoD I just haven't decided where I want to go
I will self-preserve if I have to obviously but I'd like to find a scumread I believe in

Taffy (29)

[didistetter]

Here's where I'm at:

I believe didistetter is a villager almost always because I follow the background train of thought that's happening between posts. The section of the game people were saying was erractic/awkward/stilted/whatever from didistetter were posts that were scattered but I could see how they came about. The point on my reread that I locked it in was the annika/maple being a difference check post. I could see how someone trying to piece things together would see the posts surrounding that and think “if a -> then b -> and if b then c -> oh its a difference check” even if those points don't really make a ton of sense or have to be accurate. I'm explaining this one a bit more because I've been asked about it. This is the type of read that I am almost always correct on but people never understand and that's because I'm bad at articulating it.
.

uh fwiw i completely made that up and had 0 read on maple at the time

[Sunbae]

uh fwiw i completely made that up and had 0 read on maple at the time

oh i dont care about that, like it says they dont have to make sense or be accurate, i cared about the things happening that made you say it in the first place. the real sicko line is correctly figuring out a persons alignment when they are making shitpost reads and being right for the right reasons hehe

[Maple]

I haven't voted for Arctic this game

Arctic seemed really confident Maple was town and I wanted to hear him out. then Arctic stopped doing that, and Maple is still the least townie slot in the game imo (besides the 0 poster) so I'm back to voting her



this doesn't actually say anything; "Annika's continued treatment of me so far skeeves out" = "I don't like that Annika's pushing me" smh

Maple hasn't sunk her teeth into any of her reads yet. I'm seeing stuff like "I want to give Sunbae another day"/"I don't care to read Taffy right meow", which feel like cop outs kinda

and ftr I think it's valid to want to give Sunbae another day for her recent posting, but she's just saying "I don't want to vote her today" instead of outright townreading her for it which is like, again another instance of not really taking a hard stance

that could be a playstyle thing (not sure how she usually plays oop), HOWEVER

I specifically remember she talked about wanting to have more confidence in herself/her reads as a way of improving her town style and she... hasn't really (219)

all of these reasons could be wrong under specific circumstances. like maybe she's TRYING to be confident but she's still... Not. I'd personally understand this bc my confidence depends on game context rather than my own belief in my abilities. but together, it still rings ingenuine to me holistically

The things youre citing for your wolf read all occurred after your vote. Is this inherently a bad thing? Not really. While it's a "classic scum tell" over on the MafiaScum wiki, it's one I never put too much stock in. I love justifying reads post-hoc, ESPECIALLY when making reads for postgame cred. You do, however, seem entirely uncritical here, and that's more or less the problem. There are factual errors in your rationals here.

For example: the point that my wall on asking for advise is strange because nothing bad had happened in this game. However in the wall I more or less state that the introspection is largely triggered by a string of very successful wolf rands. Your initial point of me perhaps perspective slipping on my comments about my string of wolf rands.

Your point about me saying to give sunbae another day (explained by the central thrust of my distrust for them being tonal/the way they treat the game, which can perhaps be explains by a lack of engagement). Your point about my sheeping reads on taff and not particularly looking too deeply on it (explained by the fact that frankly I don't *need* to have a strong read on taff, and there's many people in the game who are better than me with strong convictions, so I don't mind sheeping those slots). As well as a point on me showing a lack of projected confidence (which I believe is factually incorrect in that I'm trying to inject confidence into my play here (unless I'm just utterly failing at that, in which cas e.

In aggregate it just reads like you're saying words. Again, in the wise words of tessepia: you are contradicting and counterarguing my posts without any degree of refutation to be seen.

Or in my own words: I am entirely unconvinced that you believe your push on me, especially given it is predicated upon pure PoE, only substantiated in any way after your own wagon began to really gain momentum. All that said, it should be incredibly obvious to you, at this moment, that I will not die today. If you wish to live, I strongly recommend you attempt to create a more viable counterwagon. Good luck.

[Sunbae]

[didistetter]

anyways i'm probs not allowing sunbae or arctic to die today. I think they're probs both towny and i kinda like sunbae's defeatism -> nah fuck you listen to me. Think the SLs on him are just recency bias b/c liveposting zones don't line up.

not sure what wagon comp is atm.

[didistetter]

fwiw i believe you that if you are a wolf you're wolf with benben

:p

i dont think ben is with ladd.

i think lissa could be with ladd MAYBE.

if ben's a wolf, it's with u

[Sunbae]

fwiw i believe you that if you are a wolf you're wolf with benben

:p

i dont think ben is with ladd.

i think lissa could be with ladd MAYBE.

if ben's a wolf, it's with u

i agree! its one of the reasons i soft cleared him hehehe

[Sunbae]

ben posting with that ENTHUSIASTIC FIRE he'd have if I were a wolf too

the deam team

yet deams aren't real sage

[Maple]

Sunbae's vibes are different from that one turbo where we all killed them d1 instantly therefore theyre a villager :hmmyes:

[Sunbae]

Sunbae's vibes are different from that one turbo where we all killed them d1 instantly therefore theyre a villager :hmmyes:

but if i get dunked d1 on this one i can say people didnt catch me in that one they just dunk me d1 all the time and i happened to be a wolf!

see, its win win no matter what happens nothing is ever my fault mwuahaha

[Sunbae]

anyways i'm probs not allowing sunbae or arctic to die today. I think they're probs both towny and i kinda like sunbae's defeatism -> nah fuck you listen to me. Think the SLs on him are just recency bias b/c liveposting zones don't line up.

not sure what wagon comp is atm.

side note i do wonder why my tone is being read so different to how i feel. like i wasnt defeatist earlier, wasnt defensive like pzelda said, was just speaking matter of factly about expectations vs what im doing. ive been having a good time

[Sunbae]

anyways, out out for real (wasnt sure id get this stint)

thoughts are in the big wall post, i hope its followable. confidence on the top tier is high, rest varies

[Arctic]

Arctic, let me explain Visor and Ladd meta to you (It could have changed).
Visor tends to be a survivor and a late game player as both alignments. He usually isn't your obvious town and he's just a damn good wolf. If you managed to catch him, post-game credit to you. Most people townreads him for several reasons. Ofc most of us are lazy to really dig into him. Wolves tend to tr villa Visor because it's really frightening to go against him. But I don't think that many people are super good at reading or catching him.
Ladd can be an obvious town. He got killed N1 many times. So, I guess people can get little lazy here as well. His alignment usually became clear later on.

I'm just trying to give you something to work with if you're town. Feel free to ignore it, if you dislike meta.

I've played with both of them multiple times. My last two games here Visor was a wolf and got voted out on day 2, I think. I wolfread him there too. I'm not sure I remember what his town game looks like. But any argument adjacent to "if he was a wolf, you wouldn't be wolfreading him" isn't really compelling given these previous games. As for ladd, I know he tends to die early a lot as town. But if I townread other people more than him I'd still vote him. If he's town, it wouldn't make his reads any less valid

I have somewhat accepted that we will just make a low accountability elim, probably on Taffy, and that's fine with me now. I'm just not optimistic about it

[EnderWiggin]

Me waking up to thread to see Sunbae exitted 7 minutes ago is the true sadness.

[annika]

Maple's posts give me the impression of someone who is purposely trying to bait investigatives and I think it's towny
We did wolf together in the previous game here if you want to go and look at it

that's. an interesting thought. why would a townie do that tho? xD

also... what gave you that impression? (this is probably the more important thing)

All that said, it should be incredibly obvious to you, at this moment, that I will not die today. If you wish to live, I strongly recommend you attempt to create a more viable counterwagon. Good luck.

your wolfread on me is wolfie asf because it's just OMGUS, this is the easiest thing to do as wolf ever because you can just talk about how wrong a scumread is on you forever and then say "I think your push is not good faith" and boom thats your push for the day

your ENTIRE reason is that my push is unconvincing?

this is literally what Kat did in HSR, I cased her and then she spent like 20 days talking about how my read was wrong and I'm a wolf for it without actually doing anything else

also youre not even sheeping people on Taffy if youre voting me??? also if you want to sheep people with strong convictions why aren't you sheeping Waza on me? he said I never flip wolf, whats the diff?

(I have an idea about the difference. it's that I'm actively pushing you)

also youre talking to me like you know im town lmao. you feel complacent with the gamestate (Taffy/Sunbae/Annika wagons) which I STILL think are v/v/v

I'm gonna reiterate that every time I've pushed a wolf their response is to OMGUS immediately, this can be a town thing too but it's super super >>>rand wolf to just respond like "omg your push is so bad you must be a wolf!!" it literally happens every time lmao

[Arctic]

Town

waza
pzelda
didistetter
Lissa

dyachei
annika
Taffy

POE

Sunbae
nebjiamn
Maple
Raskolnikov
Ender
Visor

I'm extremely torn on which of taffy/sunbae/benneh to put in my towns

i don't feel like explaining why i dropped benneh, it basically boils down to me thinking annika is probably just town now

[Maple]

See thats exactly what I'm saying lol

You're contradicting and counterarguing with irrelevant things, such as how katz of all people push you. If you want to call my push on you OMGUS, that's fine by me.

In fact I'd say over the years I have a pretty good track record of doming wolves into a grave when they try going on me lol

[Arctic]

ugh, ladd is in my poe too

[Totally not Taffy]

that's. an interesting thought. why would a townie do that tho? xD

also... what gave you that impression? (this is probably the more important thing)

She has a naturally fluffy and chaotic playstyle that gets her suspected and then she wriggles out of getting yeeted
and this game I feel like she's playing it up

why would a wolf seek more attention?
for a townie: to get cleared

if you want, you could say that my only experience with her are two wolf games and now she's "different" but I don't think reads like that are very reliable

Taffy (30)

[Arctic]

She has a naturally fluffy and chaotic playstyle that gets her suspected and then she wriggles out of getting yeeted
and this game I feel like she's playing it up

why would a wolf seek more attention?
for a townie: to get cleared

if you want, you could say that my only experience with her are two wolf games and now she's "different" but I don't think reads like that are very reliable

Taffy (30)

Taffy I think you're gonna die probably unless you find someone else to vote here so I implore you to do that rather than finding some villagers rn

[didistetter]

I like annika better now :3

who wants to d1 lim ladd

[Totally not Taffy]

Taffy I think you're gonna die probably unless you find someone else to vote here so I implore you to do that rather than finding some villagers rn

Vote: Arctic

[Visor]

last game i died d1 and the game before i died d2, but i don't recall any game we have ever played that you have village read me, so i have just ignored your read on me for the most part arctic (outside of the stett thing which was just wrong)

since i stopped tryharding a couple years ago, i have been miskilled most games and the games i haven't been its because I've been a pr (and would have died otherwise)

so i don't really put much stock into any kind of 'meta read' on me, when the meta has been to kill me regardless of alignment, lol (and not because i have been playing well lol) (pzelda has been away for approximately the time i stopped tryharding, so having a different idea of how i play is not unexpected).

i don't mind annikas response to manti there

still happy with taffy going over

[Maple]

last game i died d1 and the game before i died d2, but i don't recall any game we have ever played that you have village read me, so i have just ignored your read on me for the most part arctic (outside of the stett thing which was just wrong)

since i stopped tryharding a couple years ago, i have been miskilled most games and the games i haven't been its because I've been a pr (and would have died otherwise)

so i don't really put much stock into any kind of 'meta read' on me, when the meta has been to kill me regardless of alignment, lol (and not because i have been playing well lol) (pzelda has been away for approximately the time i stopped tryharding, so having a different idea of how i play is not unexpected).

i don't mind annikas response to manti there

still happy with taffy going over

What did you like about it in particular? I saw it as just more of the same.