Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[Maple]

Gemma crafting this cool ass setup only for the players to massclaim d2

[didistetter]

i wonder how much gemma enjoyed visor's disloyal wolf inventor in atla...

maple def wouldn't be a bury the invention in the NK coward like twice.

oddnight redirector, even night redirector, town arso, town inventor feels like a weird mix.



i wanna ignore all y'alls claims and solve off socials but that would make me still wanna kill maple.......

ben i dont really think rask role makes a ton of sense with wolf arso. i think i'd rather leave taffy for now.

Vote: Lissa wanna hear a bit more here i think :3

[Maple]

If I cross with the kill I die lol

[didistetter]

If I cross with the kill I die lol

sounds like a disloyal wolf conditional..........

[Maple]

Indeed

[annika]

4 PRs in a 15er is weird but I guess it's possible?

Look, kill me or annika idc. She's clearly acting in bad faith towards me. If I somehow get voted out here, presumably due to tiny wagons in a 15p game, then fuck it, give me my one.

49

Saving my last post to selfprez. I'm not a nerd who needs extra posts at EoD.

hmmm..... bolded doesnt feel PR-y though.....

[Lissa]

idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

Why do you see it as random? It was pretty obviously me thinking it was incorrect to kill Taffy and figuring I should make sure that didn't happen.

ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

I think this is pretty misplaced? Of course a ladd wolf is going to do things like shield some villagers; also ben was absolutely not ever seriously vulnerable, and frankly I didn't really think sunbae was ever going over D1 either, I was kinda baffled when he claimed ngl. makes more sense w/ what the role was but at the time I was sort of confused

idk I don't think sunbae was ever going over lol just on VIBES maybe I'm wrong

I don't think delaying the taffy flip is unambiguously beneficial for ladd; it's a tradeoff of ensuring you GET that flip versus delaying looking bad for it but it potentially not happening?

wrt to Maple: I've read over both your and Lissa's reasons for doubting she's a wolf here, and I get it, but it's not quite convincing to me. possibly because it's a meta thing and I'm not too familiar with Maple

from my PoV she did kinda push wolf agenda though, because I was a viable wagon that Lissa was voting on (at least) and Ben projected a strong-ish wolfread on me for a while before postcapping; she could reasonably think that push could go through at EoD

the main thing in her favour is that she didn't vote Arctic, but... FMPOV it's like townreading her for townsiding *at all*. she didn't do anything to defend his wagon at the very least. she also didn't do much to defend Taffy besides say "how are we going Taf here" after she claimed PR lol

I think giving her cred for not voting Taffy is like insane imo she was LITERALLY a PR claim asdgfkldashgkj and Maple PoE'd her before the claim

there's not much else you can do to wolfside at EoD besides push on Taffy (a claimed PR), so it's really just that she didn't vote Arctic. and that would've been at odds with her read list in 476 anyway ^^;

imo she just exhausted her options when both of the people at the bottom of her list claimed PR, she was stuck voting the third. maybe you can argue "why didn't she bus?" but meh that's WIFOM

(ftr this is just me explaining why the reasons to TR her aren't convincing to me, not that anything I'm mentioning here is explicitly wolfie—it goes either way, I just have other reasons to SR her)

---

in terms of my other reads... I still think Ben's v, and I've kinda been feeling better about Ender recently based on his wolfread of Arctic. Stett's/Waza's/Taffy's posting has kinda just reaffirmed my previous reads on them, so not much has rly changed for me besides Ender xD

To be clear my stuff re: maple is a her whole play this game thing not at all just eod; it's her entire approach to d1 as a whole. Like it's not really about the eod though that's a part of it; I just think she'd have played the whole day in a way that would have ended up positioning her more usefully at eod + in general as a wolf.

I just spent the better part of four days wolfing with her in like a SUPER intense wolfgame and obviously this game wouldn't look like that it's not exactly comparable in that sense, but I just. really don't think this is what it would look like, I feel like I have a pretty good insight into how she thinks when wolfing now, and this just doesn't fit.

--

I think Taffy being a neutral is extremely possible. Just kinda instinctively it feels like a thing that makes sense? Both in terms of what the role is and how it fits into what we know of the setup I feel like it's probably the world we are in, town arso doesn't really quite feel right?

When I saw Rask flipped wolf I remembered this conversation Benneh and Lissa had (I've truncated them to only the relevant parts)



And I think I misunderstood what Benneh was saying bc to me "vigilance" means "watchfulness" and therefore "being protective of someone" and Happy was not protective of Rask at all (all Happy posts about Rask up till that point in spoiler)

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

But now having gathered them all to make this post I assume the vigilance referred to something like being very focused on something (in this case the zero-poster)?

Anyway this is a lead-in to ask @nebjiamn and @Lissa why they aren't pushing Happy today for the over the top TWTBAW "I'm bussing Rask" joke three times and then voting there EoD but switching off when the wagon actually takes off.

Taffy (6)

waza's handling of rask doesn't... really make sense if he is a wolf. I mean there's worlds where it was some weird levelly thing, but like. waza was probably part of the reason killing rask ever got seriously considered? I'd guess he put the thought in at least some heads with what he was doing earlier in the day? then he chooses to not vote there eod? I don't reaaallly think that's the choice he makes there as a wolf? like it's not strictly impossible but it's kinda jank.

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

oh that's what that was

cute soft lol

[Totally not Taffy]

If I cross with the kill I die lol

Ohhh forget about that chat then

@Maple

Taffy (15)

[nebjiamn]

if i entertain the idea of all PRs being town (which is not at all a given imo lol) things shake up something like this aorn for me, tiers unordered within:

nebjiamn
Arctic
Maple
Taffy

didistetter
annika

pzelda
waza

ladd
Visor
Lissa
Ender
dyachei




im gonna fuck off and conserve my last 11 posts or whatever. i think rn i'm leaning toward an elim in ladd/dya/ender/maple but i don't really know how i want to prioritize all these claims yet so mmmv

gth if all claims are true (unlikely) pzelda really needs to be given a true look-see

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 2 - Votes from post 673 through 883

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
1	Visor	waza (22)
1	dyachei	nebjiamn (39)
1	ladd	Visor (13)
9	Not Voting	Arctic (22), EnderWiggin (13), Lissa (5), Maple (20), Totally not Taffy (6), annika (13), dyachei (2), ladd (16), pzelda (10), didistetter (26)

[Maple]

I guess that means I die if I cross with am ignite, I hadn't thought about that

[waza]

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

You know it bud

Admittedly giving the item to visor IS wolfing because I knew he'd defend me without outing the info and I figured I needed someone to mason with me to live deeper into the game.

Just don't have the juice to go the hard way here, and since we're basically massclaiming already i figure this info is pretty important.

If I cross with the kill I die lol

idk how to describe it but something about maples claim seems kinda believable to me, the only unbelievable part is the fact they claimed at that moment with no pressure at all, and id expect a mech wiz like maple to know they didnt need to claim there and its -ev esp given they literally told wolves how to kill them??

if i entertain the idea of all PRs being town (which is not at all a given imo lol) things shake up something like this aorn for me, tiers unordered within:

nebjiamn
Arctic
Maple
Taffy

didistetter
annika

pzelda
waza

ladd
Visor
Lissa
Ender
dyachei




im gonna fuck off and conserve my last 11 posts or whatever. i think rn i'm leaning toward an elim in ladd/dya/ender/maple but i don't really know how i want to prioritize all these claims yet so mmmv

gth if all claims are true (unlikely) pzelda really needs to be given a true look-see

bro you managed to mention every person in your poe in this post except for lissa lmao

[nebjiamn]

idk how to describe it but something about maples claim seems kinda believable to me, the only unbelievable part is the fact they claimed at that moment with no pressure at all, and id expect a mech wiz like maple to know they didnt need to claim there and its -ev esp given they literally told wolves how to kill them??




bro you managed to mention every person in your poe in this post except for lissa lmao

think ur blind bruv

[waza]

think ur blind bruv

why do you think wolves have an inventor that gives trackers when they already have a role that can track, serves no utility other than trying to clear themselves from the claim if lissa dies first. which tbf is pretty OP but like im not used to these kinda setups being a thing so idk how likely that is, given from my experience that sample size is exactly 0

[Totally not Taffy]

why do you think wolves have an inventor that gives trackers when they already have a role that can track, serves no utility other than trying to clear themselves from the claim if lissa dies first. which tbf is pretty OP but like im not used to these kinda setups being a thing so idk how likely that is, given from my experience that sample size is exactly 0

Ok yeah maybe it would help.

I started the game with 1 bomb (which I used on Arctic)
I would have gotten more bombs by getting targeted at night, but I never was, so there are no bombs anywhere at all.
All existing bombs ignite when I am NKed, so if I had gotten more bombs, and given Rask's role, I felt that "arsonist but with a twist" was close enough, and also, I genuinely lol'ed when I saw my role required me to get NKed in a lobby that's 90% SPKs, claiming a more dangerous kp than I actually was felt like the way to go. Only I was then not NKed and stuck having to keep up the pretense which was a bit shit.

But forcing the wolves to hand townies targeting night actions makes sense if you consider that they might have had some kind of warning about it, so there would be targeting out there but they had a chance of giving it to ppl for whom they could predict who they'd target. If you go through my iso, there are countless posts where I reference or flat out ask to be targeted.

I had such high hopes for Stett, but then Happy said not to jail me, and it was late and close to EoD and I just couldn't come up with any way to reply to it without being too obvious.

Also if you're wondering why I asked Visor to confirm that I hadn't done anything, it was a) to get another suggestion out there, and b) bc I was nursing a Visor/Maple tinfoil at the time (where the track would've been fabricated) and I wanted to see if he'd make the mistake of confirming when I knew he hadn't tracked me.

Taffy (20)

[Maple]

...

[waza]

Ok yeah maybe it would help.

I started the game with 1 bomb (which I used on Arctic)
I would have gotten more bombs by getting targeted at night, but I never was, so there are no bombs anywhere at all.
All existing bombs ignite when I am NKed, so if I had gotten more bombs, and given Rask's role, I felt that "arsonist but with a twist" was close enough, and also, I genuinely lol'ed when I saw my role required me to get NKed in a lobby that's 90% SPKs, claiming a more dangerous kp than I actually was felt like the way to go. Only I was then not NKed and stuck having to keep up the pretense which was a bit shit.

But forcing the wolves to hand townies targeting night actions makes sense if you consider that they might have had some kind of warning about it, so there would be targeting out there but they had a chance of giving it to ppl for whom they could predict who they'd target. If you go through my iso, there are countless posts where I reference or flat out ask to be targeted.

I had such high hopes for Stett, but then Happy said not to jail me, and it was late and close to EoD and I just couldn't come up with any way to reply to it without being too obvious.

Also if you're wondering why I asked Visor to confirm that I hadn't done anything, it was a) to get another suggestion out there, and b) bc I was nursing a Visor/Maple tinfoil at the time (where the track would've been fabricated) and I wanted to see if he'd make the mistake of confirming when I knew he hadn't tracked me.

Taffy (20)

I said not to jail you? I don’t remember but if I did it’s probs cos u were my top tr on d2 lol or one of them, oops lol didn’t realise it hurt what u were trying to achieve

Anyways thanks for this post, it helps clear up a lot

[didistetter]

Ok yeah maybe it would help.

I started the game with 1 bomb (which I used on Arctic)
I would have gotten more bombs by getting targeted at night, but I never was, so there are no bombs anywhere at all.
All existing bombs ignite when I am NKed, so if I had gotten more bombs, and given Rask's role, I felt that "arsonist but with a twist" was close enough, and also, I genuinely lol'ed when I saw my role required me to get NKed in a lobby that's 90% SPKs, claiming a more dangerous kp than I actually was felt like the way to go. Only I was then not NKed and stuck having to keep up the pretense which was a bit shit.

But forcing the wolves to hand townies targeting night actions makes sense if you consider that they might have had some kind of warning about it, so there would be targeting out there but they had a chance of giving it to ppl for whom they could predict who they'd target. If you go through my iso, there are countless posts where I reference or flat out ask to be targeted.

I had such high hopes for Stett, but then Happy said not to jail me, and it was late and close to EoD and I just couldn't come up with any way to reply to it without being too obvious.

Also if you're wondering why I asked Visor to confirm that I hadn't done anything, it was a) to get another suggestion out there, and b) bc I was nursing a Visor/Maple tinfoil at the time (where the track would've been fabricated) and I wanted to see if he'd make the mistake of confirming when I knew he hadn't tracked me.

Taffy (20)

ok this is towny and the stacking with visits makes a lot more sense and is well less 3p, and also jesus we coulda got so much more util if u claimed previously ;-;

oh well doesnt matter ty for claiming

ill try to readback through maple/ben/visor after i get home pre-eod

[waza]

Ok yeah maybe it would help.

I started the game with 1 bomb (which I used on Arctic)
I would have gotten more bombs by getting targeted at night, but I never was, so there are no bombs anywhere at all.
All existing bombs ignite when I am NKed, so if I had gotten more bombs, and given Rask's role, I felt that "arsonist but with a twist" was close enough, and also, I genuinely lol'ed when I saw my role required me to get NKed in a lobby that's 90% SPKs, claiming a more dangerous kp than I actually was felt like the way to go. Only I was then not NKed and stuck having to keep up the pretense which was a bit shit.

But forcing the wolves to hand townies targeting night actions makes sense if you consider that they might have had some kind of warning about it, so there would be targeting out there but they had a chance of giving it to ppl for whom they could predict who they'd target. If you go through my iso, there are countless posts where I reference or flat out ask to be targeted.

I had such high hopes for Stett, but then Happy said not to jail me, and it was late and close to EoD and I just couldn't come up with any way to reply to it without being too obvious.

Also if you're wondering why I asked Visor to confirm that I hadn't done anything, it was a) to get another suggestion out there, and b) bc I was nursing a Visor/Maple tinfoil at the time (where the track would've been fabricated) and I wanted to see if he'd make the mistake of confirming when I knew he hadn't tracked me.

Taffy (20)

last part was really smart, good thinking @Totally not Taffy

[waza]

the biggest plus to ben is that he decided to hard shield zelda when my poe outside the prs was zelda and ben, which inevitably shrinks the poe to just ben. which is in a vacuum towny. the only counterargument i can think as to why it isnt towny is that ben is a top 10 player as wolf and town, so hes aware that people generally for whatever reason think that expanding the poe this far into the game is scummy (its not imo its probs rand/nai, but that perception exists regardless) and hes probs aware that therefore shrinking the poe is regarded as towny esp when ur in that poe. so i wouldnt put it completely past him to play into that somewhat because at the end of the day a vet wolf like ben knows it really doesnt matter how big or small the poe is, as long as u have just 1 person u can push/outsurvive each day thats all you need, so a poe of 2 is enough as long as you keep that poe at a consistent 2 each day.

but to his credit he goes the extra mile and hard shields zelda, and hard pushes maple, whhereas if he was a wolf he had the option to just softly defend zelda whilst egging me on in other ways. or let others push taffy, he doesnt neccessarily have to get blood on his hands today by cutting off other pushes and taking sole responsibility by spearheading a maple yeet, which inevitably makes him look even worse in w!ben v!maple worlds after that

like im not sure what w!bens strategy would be heading into the next day, he has to essentially bank on getting me and visor yeeted which then means he cant nk either of us. i suppose he would realise he needs zeldas vote in that case so maybe i can see the vision of wanting to try and pocket zelda early, but that would mean the man is playing 3 days in advance without even knowing for sure hes gonna live this day lol

tldr i think ben defending zelda the way he did was probs towny unless hes playing 3 days ahead/being wifomy

the biggest downside to ben is that imo he didnt find people he is really good at reading at appropriate times. i brought up some of the stuff d1, so i wont rehash those reads, but even on d2, imo ladd and dya were both really towny. if i could see it im sure ben normally should be able to as well, hes great at reading both of them im pretty sure. and i know he caught lissa almost instantly in the mash, and i did mention d1 that lissa was playing into some similar habits she did in the wolf mash game. so yeah if i had to tinfoil bens d2 its less the fact he pushed arctic (tbh i havent even reached that part yet) and moreso that he couldnt find ladd v dya v or lissa w