Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[waza]

Okay Ben I read ur wall

I still think ur town which doesn’t help my poe sorting but ngl it hasn’t changed my desire to want to kill taffy today lmao

I’ll try explain why when I’m home because it’s quite wordy and moreso based on game theory stuff

Ebwop

[waza]

lol I just realised visor said tracked Stett nowhere

For some reason I interpreted that as somewhere

[nebjiamn]

i forgot but lissa having a x1 doc actually lends to the idea (to me at least) that maple's role is very much compatible with it being on the wolf team

this effectively gives wolves protection from arsonists in 2 fashion: 1. defusing a bomb and 2. protecting a player the night of ignition. but it also serves as a way to frame a villager? wolves could have used the doc the night stett had a jailkeep to frame a player, but this didn't happen since lissa was the likyl target of a jailkeep

but imagine if lissa wasn't a viable wagon d3 instead? they could just doc target their factional and it 'outs' who ever stett targeted that night

[nebjiamn]

also after rereading rasks role again i just dont see any world taffy is a wolf, pack or lost, unless we're in an unknown bastard game which i dont really care about

[Visor]

Huh which day and where did she go

You said u didn’t have anything important is that because u holstered at first or did u already have the track then

Sorry if u already answered this im reading stuff out of order on my phone here and there in between work

n2, nowhere

[Visor]

I don't think lissa is a wolf.

Maybe i'm bad.

Maybe i'm correct.

Maybe I have TMI.
@Lissa if you're town and survive the day we need you to be as present as you can

I am going to lobby for voted on ender here please, i think lissa is towny still

[Visor]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1529

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Lissa	EnderWiggin (19), ladd (35), waza (33)
2	EnderWiggin	didistetter (28), pzelda (43)
2	Maple	Totally not Taffy (17), dyachei (37)
1	waza	Visor (42)
1	ladd	Maple (31)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (16), nebjiamn (50)

lookin good for waza

I think I''m starting to understand why Visor is seeing a Benneh/Lissa team

Vote: Lissa

couldve easily voted ender (well idk about their progression)

idk fwiw i dont think lissa is a wolf lol

breaux if you just stopped punting this game for one second i could find you

[Visor]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 1171 through 1529

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Lissa	EnderWiggin (19), ladd (35), waza (33)
2	EnderWiggin	didistetter (28), pzelda (43)
2	Maple	Totally not Taffy (17), dyachei (37)
1	waza	Visor (42)
1	ladd	Maple (31)
2	Not Voting	Lissa (16), nebjiamn (50)

I think I''m starting to understand why Visor is seeing a Benneh/Lissa team

Vote: Lissa

I like really dont think we should kill waza here

If you dont trust me waza was villaread by both artic and annika and killing outiside their PoE today seems kinda silly to me


Maple still pushing for taffy is so wolfy. Lissa going from 0 to 100 on waza seems wolfy to me, the argument that waza wants them out before they become obvious town is just...made up iyam



Idk sorry if wrong but i am still at lissa/maple

still, what ladd said is convincing

i gotta reread tomorrow and see how lissa treated maple

but i think i am prob gonna kill in maple/benneh

[Visor]

on a pure level zero read, the fact that lissa didnt want to pivot to maple is just weird if maple is v, but i guess if maple is v and defending you you cant afford to switch to them

w/e i will research tmrw

[waza]

LOL ngl taffy’s second string of posts seem towny

But I have troubles justifying not voting there from a principle standpoint, sorry this probably doesn’t feel good to read but I’ll explain my pov when I’m home

[waza]

girl idfk i thought you tmid annika town and i caught you and decided to bait pr alongside the push. i wasn't thinking or caring about your perception

Oh yeah I did have tmi on her

But that’s not cos I’m a wolf, home girl plays with her rolecard face up the entire game so it’s hard not to tr her lol (yeah she’s a super good wolf these days but her and ladd usually I can snipe their alignment fairly early from vibes, Ben too for that matter but I have a smaller sample size there relative to the other two)

[waza]

every fucking game i swear people sus me then i live to endgame and they suprise pikachu face that im still alive way to fucking late bruh yall should have let me died like half a month ago learn how to leash KP noobs

also it was a VANILLA COP which is a STRICTLY WORSE ABILITY THAN JAILKEEP my god

lol well that’s why I was trying to leash both of you earlier in the game but I was alone in that matter

[waza]

Re-evaluating based on flips
There's no way I am a wolf, not even a lost wolf, after EoD3 where I literally call Lissa out for wolfing through EoD and easily could've voted Ender (who I explicitly rescinded a townread on earlier) or you (who I'd been voting before I sheeped Visor on Lissa)
There is no way a 3p whose wincon surely depends on their bombs starts pushing to kill Arctic after Benneh thought he cought him in a lie rather than arguing that he was already bombed anyway like I'd done at SoD2. That can only come from a town who genuinely believes Arctic was a wolf trying to get another night action (like I said) or from a wolf who saw their chance to push a PR out.

I am town. And I watched Seven Psychopaths today, it has a cute meme for if you ask me about my targets again.

Taffy (7)

@Totally not Taffy who did you ignite last night

[waza]

Good morning,
Just a little note about my schedule before catching up. I'm visiting my sister, but I should be on a bus back to Prague some three hours before deadline. Expect me to be active there. Also, I'm on my phone for the entirety of D2.

I fell asleep some ten minutes before we were allowed to change our votes... I know it's moot but I probably would have voted Annika there for only having Maple and Rask as options.

@pzelda can you please explain the last line, ur saying u woulda voted Annika at eod over maple or rask? If so, why?

[waza]

i eated pizza life is good

idr the name of that like italian salted spicy meat but it had that on it

eepy af but dont wanna wait till tmr so yall are getting the tldr version of my v list, im somehwere along the lines of

visor
benneh
lissa
arctic
annika
dyachei

top half at the moment, mostly unordered. Rask cfd >>rand pure (there were strong viable counters in taffy/me/ladd/arctic(though arctic wasnt a *real*, viable wagon given waza+others were defending). upon review i think dya posted well enough not a whole lot of notes, concluded lissa v likely village we'll see if ive developed into a lissa specialist but i feel fairly confident about this one, and went through arctics posts itg vs some of our other previous games and came away thinking hes prooooob v (arctic also has a history of fucking TUNNELING me, so him *not* pushing me itg and being pretty medium to positive on me actually stood out originally lol)

i did end up looking back at hsr and a few other games, and i MAINTAIN that annika is factually wrong on a few matters (the way she boiled my read down sucked) for example wrt pushes because the push on her in both hsr and ftr for example strike similarly to me (just comparing two pushes from the same player, though the game formats/subs/well the ftr game was lowkey toxic in atmosphere due to how fucked hte game was) and that her treatment of my slot was BAD and didnt have the same villagery clueless curiosity that she exuded during the hsr game, but i concede that it is HIGHLY unlikely that she buses rask in that postion as one of the most important/pivotal voters there (she opened up the possibility of compromising w/ lissa, which effectively bought 2 votes). so just gonna take the L here and conclude that the incongruity i found is probably nai.

visor is a gentleman who paid for brunch with gets him a free pass and benneh is my n0

Imagine thinking I'd read an org game LMAO

I haven't even read *this* game

I suppose it’s a little odd in the second quote manti implies they’re not reading this game but in the first post they seemingly cared enough to look through past games. I can think of why it could be the case in town!manti worlds but in a vacuum it still is unusual for someone to not be invested enough to read the game they’re in yet still care about to check pasts games with others

The caveat is the post is worded as a joke and could be hyperbole/exageration of playing up how little they were invested in this one

[waza]

i eated pizza life is good

idr the name of that like italian salted spicy meat but it had that on it

eepy af but dont wanna wait till tmr so yall are getting the tldr version of my v list, im somehwere along the lines of

visor
benneh
lissa
arctic
annika
dyachei

top half at the moment, mostly unordered. Rask cfd >>rand pure (there were strong viable counters in taffy/me/ladd/arctic(though arctic wasnt a *real*, viable wagon given waza+others were defending). upon review i think dya posted well enough not a whole lot of notes, concluded lissa v likely village we'll see if ive developed into a lissa specialist but i feel fairly confident about this one, and went through arctics posts itg vs some of our other previous games and came away thinking hes prooooob v (arctic also has a history of fucking TUNNELING me, so him *not* pushing me itg and being pretty medium to positive on me actually stood out originally lol)

i did end up looking back at hsr and a few other games, and i MAINTAIN that annika is factually wrong on a few matters (the way she boiled my read down sucked) for example wrt pushes because the push on her in both hsr and ftr for example strike similarly to me (just comparing two pushes from the same player, though the game formats/subs/well the ftr game was lowkey toxic in atmosphere due to how fucked hte game was) and that her treatment of my slot was BAD and didnt have the same villagery clueless curiosity that she exuded during the hsr game, but i concede that it is HIGHLY unlikely that she buses rask in that postion as one of the most important/pivotal voters there (she opened up the possibility of compromising w/ lissa, which effectively bought 2 votes). so just gonna take the L here and conclude that the incongruity i found is probably nai.

visor is a gentleman who paid for brunch with gets him a free pass and benneh is my n0

Imagine thinking I'd read an org game LMAO

I haven't even read *this* game

@ladd what do you make of the way lissa has posted wrt your slot, and her amenability to me suggesting a eod flashwagon on afk ladd for no reason other than someone claiming pr and dipping?

im kinda struggling with that dynamic, especially considering she +1d me telling arctic to not lim taffy, but seemed willing to flash an afk who frankly had no business being a d1 wagon

This was right after d2 started, would be wild to bus rask and then go straight to shading lissa when imo it would be very easy for her partner to just clear her like others did for voting rask

So yeah finding more reasons to lock in the stett read

[waza]

i eated pizza life is good

idr the name of that like italian salted spicy meat but it had that on it

eepy af but dont wanna wait till tmr so yall are getting the tldr version of my v list, im somehwere along the lines of

visor
benneh
lissa
arctic
annika
dyachei

top half at the moment, mostly unordered. Rask cfd >>rand pure (there were strong viable counters in taffy/me/ladd/arctic(though arctic wasnt a *real*, viable wagon given waza+others were defending). upon review i think dya posted well enough not a whole lot of notes, concluded lissa v likely village we'll see if ive developed into a lissa specialist but i feel fairly confident about this one, and went through arctics posts itg vs some of our other previous games and came away thinking hes prooooob v (arctic also has a history of fucking TUNNELING me, so him *not* pushing me itg and being pretty medium to positive on me actually stood out originally lol)

i did end up looking back at hsr and a few other games, and i MAINTAIN that annika is factually wrong on a few matters (the way she boiled my read down sucked) for example wrt pushes because the push on her in both hsr and ftr for example strike similarly to me (just comparing two pushes from the same player, though the game formats/subs/well the ftr game was lowkey toxic in atmosphere due to how fucked hte game was) and that her treatment of my slot was BAD and didnt have the same villagery clueless curiosity that she exuded during the hsr game, but i concede that it is HIGHLY unlikely that she buses rask in that postion as one of the most important/pivotal voters there (she opened up the possibility of compromising w/ lissa, which effectively bought 2 votes). so just gonna take the L here and conclude that the incongruity i found is probably nai.

visor is a gentleman who paid for brunch with gets him a free pass and benneh is my n0

Imagine thinking I'd read an org game LMAO

I haven't even read *this* game

Arctic is on a roll tbh. They def have a different style more focused on finding wolves, but I can see them as a villa now (I tr them). That also makes me wanna pay more attention to Visor.
Annika, I'm not 100% about their eod looking so good. I think they kind of ended on Rask after running out of options. Their only other option was Maple and he was pushing back. Also, the Rask wagon got traction, Rask was afk and so on. I guess I'm missing a wee bit what Benneh liked about their eod. I might change my mind after rereading.
I actually kind of like Maple during the eod. I can't elaborate, because I didn't keep notes.

Ladd and Taffy are players to talk about rn IMHO.
I quite liked Taffy after sitting in the thread with them, but I also disliked that claim a little bit. I like the way they articulate their reads and I felt I could follow how they arrived at their conclusions. There are things to check again. Who was pushing them and why they claimed in the end.
Ladd is a weird one. I quite like his posts overall, but he's a little bit under the radar instead of trying to lead or at least inspire village. Yesterday I thought he could had ramded a pro and that he was holding back to avoid N1 kill. Today, I'm not so sure so far. Technically, there's not a whole lot wrong about his posts today, but they mostly reacted to other players instead of for example pushing on their own.

Ender is also someone to throw in the Poe.
Waza - I don't want to consider them just for moving their vote. I guess I can wait a little a watch what their game today looks like. So far waza defender their eod move. I want to see where they are at.

Ender writing this kinda makes me thing he's just a villa.

Lmao Zelda is really making me work for it

On one hand they’ll make a pretty towny post which imo the first quote fits into then they follow it up with something I would find scummy

@pzelda can you explain what you liked about Enders post there? He is literally just explaining what benneh said to someone else, none of it is Enders own thoughts

[waza]

Ender writing this kinda makes me thing he's just a villa.

Benneh is implying that Sunbae anticipated who was targetted and redirected onto himself. Therefore wolves were the ones that killed him but Sunbae was not the N1 therefore wolves weren't trying to silence sunbae

I’ll just quote the ender stuff so it’s easier for you to see

What was towny on this post @pzelda?

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 5 - Votes from post 1931 through 2058

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Maple	Totally not Taffy (8), nebjiamn (15)
1	Totally not Taffy	Maple (12)
4	Not Voting	Visor (14), pzelda (18), waza (38), didistetter (19)

[nebjiamn]

vote: Maple

test again frommobile

[didistetter]

i've been so fucking ditzy today im so sorry
@nebjiamn spell it out for me please

how does a mafia team of: bomb remover, tracker/role cop/doctor joat, + disloyal jailkeep/vanilla cop/tracker inventor

make sense with: town bomb planter + town even/odd redirector bodyguards

i'm not trying to be obtuse it just feels like really strange design

[didistetter]

maybe

to me, the way the she [meaning stett] approached the start of the game was very much like brute forcing an entrance

actually reminds me of how lissa entered in the anon game where initially i thought it was wolfy (and then i got railroaded and went way off base lol)

I feel like that's just kinda how stett enters games though?

(also funny/weird and extremely tangential but getting a bunch of free townreads at the start of the mash that I realized were basically because normally I come into the thread like several hours after sod and post like it's sod and I didn't there because I spent an hour posting at sod was kinda like... it really made me want to alter my approach to start of games lol. just in general I've been thinking about like how to start actually getting nightkilled as a villager too and just generally my approach to earlygame as well as some other aspects of villaging. and idk how to do it regularly cause the mash problem is I kinda NEED that sod-y posting to get into the flow of the game but getting early townreads like that was soooo nice??)

(also I think it was basically impossible for you to ever find me mid d1-d3 the way that game played out with you getting railroaded for bad reasons, it made it insanely easy for me to post good about it because it was all real thoughts lol)


visor seems villagery

this is a pure bad take (tm)

but annikas read on wazas flip was villagery uncritical

i think normally i'd tend to just say that its kind of a bad (maybe almost tmi spewing) village read from a wolf but i think i have come around to it being too unconcerned and blatant, which can be like a lazy wolf kind of read to make, but i don't really get those vibes from someone who bothers to post links to post numbers

i am not explaining this nearly as well as I wouldve liked, but i just think that while that kind of read is normally a lazy wolfread, i think given how they are playing it isn't

this read is kind of just like

it's presented in a more village visor sort of way imo

the specific way it meanders a bit and the layers of it

good look for visor imo.

the defense of me to him would just be very fucking strange posting from a wolf to a wolf

[didistetter]

See the good news about not being confident at all in my reads rn:

if annika's a wolf she probs N1s dya
if ben's a wolf he probs N1s ladd
if ladd's a wolf he probs N1s benben

so no matter how it shakes out ol stetty gets to live to d2 and actually reeval a bit

for now

Vote: Totally not Taffy

if taffy is town annika is probs the n1k and there are 2 wolves in ben/ladd/lissa :3

mmmm

[didistetter]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I don't have meta but taffy definitely strikes me as someone who would go after a high influence thread leader as a wolf, just from what I know of her like personality.

I think that her entrance was villagery regardless though.

Why do you feel like you're wolfsiding so far? [directed to benneh]

ladd's thing re: taffy does make me rethink my village read there somewhat

i'm not really vibing with anyone's view on the game state so far and even when I do start to lean into a certain realm i regress and hate it. basically a lack of a cohesive feel on the current game state.

hm fair enough ig

re: stett -- tonally she's been quite good aside from a post @ arctic that i really disliked. but actions wise her line here is a bit perplexing. doubly so if she's wolf, so i'm kind of sticking with the idea she's town more often than she's not but I don't really love my position here.

yeah ultimately I think the type of confusing/weird stuff she has done isn't really a kind of weird that makes her a wolf or makes really much of ANY sense for her to actually do as a wolf

@Totally not Taffy can you talk to me about what your thought process was behind the benneh read?...

yeah it was def a weird interpretstion of bens posts in a lot of ways

at first i thought it was like weird in a ?villagery? way probably but others' comments re her meta etc. have altered my take on that

also curious for this to be answered

the post before this was lissa basically shutting down your read because that's just how stett plays

now.. she probably wasn't explicitly calling it wolfy because you may not be aware of that meta, but it was still implying that the push was not good

i don't think its fair to conflate lissa's post wherein she explains a meta read to visor as calling visor's push "not good"

at least not in the sense that you are sorta doing the legwork to call it wolfy on lissa's behalf

this is another nitpicky thing but i think this matters tbh

visor is like SUPER spewed town by arctic imo

the specific way arctic pushed him, it's like. it's SUCH an ingenerous interpretation of visor'sposting to the point of being incorrect/extremely reductive

yeah uh some of lissa's d2 stuff wrt arctic is suuuuuuper sketch for visor

but also she knows arctic will flip town so im not sure how she'd set up spew here

its very strange, there are multiple posts calling visor lock off w!arctic

Benneh's reply yesterday made me realise that bc I jumped to my mentions yesterday I had actually missed a bunch of posts so I will need to reread the day.

I"m not sticking around right now bc I have to go shopping but I've got nothing on this afternoon.


I still had this open from overnight reading and @nebjiamn I would never call someone aggressive unless in the sense of "the way you phrased that is aggressive please step away from thread"

I found it quite unpleasant that you and Lissa referred to my early scumleans as "aggression" bc that's really not my intention and it is a game about pointing at each other and calling them scum for mostly reasons they're not going to agree with.

Taffy (I lost count)

think you read something into that that wasn't there. wasn't intended in the way it sounds like you took it

collections of quotes with some thoughts thrown in

this has not been as helpful as i hoped.

there's some good stuff for visor and some weird stuff for visor
there's some good stuff for ben and some weird stuff for ben
there's some good stuff for maple and some weird stuff for maple


bro my only def read is taffy is like never paired b/c of how dismissive lissa is to taffy ;-;

ill tackle the trio's approaches to lissa after eep

[waza]

idk lol

u/ladd were my designated tinfoils if taffy seemed town

u seemed towny enough last couple of pages and errrr im not worried about ladd cos i know people are just gonna hound his ass all game regardless of alignment

maple seems fine enough ig

ender is townreading me all game and i like it, doesnt neccessarily make him town though

so it really just boils down to if i think theres 2 wolves in that pool......and im like errrr maybe? but im not really convinced it has to be the case either, and plus i think most of those names should get got before me lmao, unless someone gets hell tunneled but thats on them not me if that happens

so yaaa this is a big lead up to a very disappointing finish where i just say im shrugging and trying to aim for the wolf i lose to now rather than later before its too late, not convinced it has to be lissa but im just testing the waters. mostly just boiled down to me looking back at eod votes, trying to think what wolves would be doing and what their wincons would be. lissas vote on rask seemed pretty random so yah i voted there and will see what happens or how i feel in the morning or after ive read the game some more

ig one of the things with ladd is that for me to believe hes a wolf i have to accept thats hes played against his own wincon during this game lmao

hes a smart gui, probs one of the smartest i met on fm so i somewhat expect him to be aware of how certain things would play out if hes a wolf

and if hes a wolf that means hes townsided unnecessarily to his own detriment at times (im going off vague memory so ill need to fact check)

like if ben is town which i think he is, then lads shielded me ben sunbae from getting heat when we were vulnerable. ok sure i somewhat forced him into townreading me so that doesnt count as much, and if ben is town hes the type of town that i imagine anyone with tmi would have a really hard time trying to justify a sr on

but with sunbae, there was a moment where sunbae was getting alota heat, and ladd spoke out against it and has been vocal against pushing the taffy wagon. the thing is though, if ladds a wolf hes well aware that hes on a timer, and that people have vocally expressed if taffy is town they'll push him. so its in ladds benefit to delay the taffy flip as long as he can,rrather then reinforce it. so for example when haru gets pushed, ladd is much better off just doing literally anything other than what he did lmao.

tbf one of the last times i tried to apply a wolf strategy read on someone it failed (twice) but i dont remember many other times its backfired. im not outright clearing ladd and will obv keep an open eye, its just i cant really figure out what his game plan would be as wolf, i can make a similar case for maple albeit i find it less convincing so i probs wont unless i feel stronger about it

btw i mean the player twice shrunk when i said (twice)

bruh @ladd these were bangers

(ignore the part where i vote arctic soon after, ngl arctic did really well to spew himself not pr i respect it, almost too well but thats more of our fault than his for not saving him)

[waza]

aright im gonna have my taffy rant

ngl i went back to actually look at their claim again properly

and yeah i get it, i see it, i know it

its very unlikely for it to belong to a pack wolf unless its specifically written that way to messs with town, in which case like yeah u usually just accept that isnt the case most of the time

the problem is, despite the claim and despite taffy sounding towny from time to time, there is still a lot of question marks that really dont get answered. thhe first of which is how are we on d4?d5? and there still hasnt been an ignite @Totally not Taffy friendo with a role like this we really need you to have used it by now so we know it exists. on n2 you holster, n3 its on lissa (okay maybe i accept some blame on this because at first i asked you to douse lissa but i did change to maple but idk if you saw it), n4 idek what you did (so ig that means today is d5 lol)

and there still exists the fact that IF maple is town that both arctic and maple (possibly 2 town prs) had an issue with ur claim and dont believe it

so the fact of the matter is, i think at some point taffy will get voted. if its not today, it will probably be later, UNLESS we find the pack wolf. but if we are playing to the worst case scenario and its someone deep theres a very likely chance that we go to an f3 with taffy, the deep wolf and some villa

and im being totally honest, if im that villa i sure as heck am going to struggle to not to vote taffy.

and i am certain almost every other villa will feel the same

because its the easy out

and i say this with nothing but love, but taffys timezone isnt the greatest + they probs really busy irl so theyre stuck to posting 10 times a day or around that mark. and dont get me wrong, i appreciate your posts and theyre solid posts for the most part, but if ur stuck against a super motivated ben or the deepwolf in zelda/visor/stett (in order of likeliness to be wolf) then its gonna be super hard for the last villa to get there and its likely the wolf will just outspam taffy

so if we dont kill taffy today, it will be under one circumstance

i want every non-maple slot to confirm to me that you have read and accepted taffys claim and you accept there is no way in ur mind this can be a wolf role. and if we let taffy get through today then we dont ever default to shrugyeeting them later, because if we do it today im sure we can still win even if its a miss, but if we do it later im sure we just lose

@Visor
@didistetter
@nebjiamn
@pzelda

i want to hear it from all of you, if you all think theres a zero chance taffy is a pack wolf ill take it, and if they live today im literally never voting them for the rest of the game, so if i end up in a f3 situation with any of you (hopefully im dead by then but IF i do) im literally just gonna quote this and park on you, so dont say i didnt warn you.

if taffy is 3p im fine with them taking the win, id be happy for my friend taffy if theyre a 3p and they managed to beat a stacked pl of town and wolves to solo win, as long as wolves dont win im happy lmao, i usually dont care about 3ps, so yeah to reiterate if you think theyre town or 3p 100% of the time i want to confirm from all your mouths

[Visor]

I would like taffy to full claim every detail and action

[Visor]

We do know for a fact that a bomb planting role exists from tasks role pm

So I am not so worried about that aspect

[Visor]

I don't really understand the arguments re arctic not acting like a pr

He's a pr, you expect him to announce it?

[Visor]

I would like taffy to full claim every detail and action

@Totally not Taffy

I don't care about your pr equity just claim everything please