Gemma's Favorite Music Mafia

[pzelda]

@pzelda can you please explain the last line, ur saying u woulda voted Annika at eod over maple or rask? If so, why?

Is this from d2 sod? I'm not sure tbh. I think I disliked Annika for having too many townreads at that point. They probably felt to me like that soul villa who couldn't justify scumreading active towns. D1 Maple was a wildcard and I dislike voting 0 posters.

[pzelda]

Lmao Zelda is really making me work for it

On one hand they’ll make a pretty towny post which imo the first quote fits into then they follow it up with something I would find scummy

@pzelda can you explain what you liked about Enders post there? He is literally just explaining what benneh said to someone else, none of it is Enders own thoughts

Maybe because it was too wolfy for Ender to be a wolf. Something along those lines. My d2 wasn't good. I think my d3 was better but for some reason I locked lissa town and spent most of it on a vanity search only to end up Ender, who I previously had as a possible town.

[pzelda]

I’ll just quote the ender stuff so it’s easier for you to see

What was towny on this post @pzelda?

Oh, yes It felt kind of naive from ender that he explained that. I think he would have avoided creating narratives like that as a wolf.

[pzelda]

i've been so fucking ditzy today im so sorry
@nebjiamn spell it out for me please

how does a mafia team of: bomb remover, tracker/role cop/doctor joat, + disloyal jailkeep/vanilla cop/tracker inventor

make sense with: town bomb planter + town even/odd redirector bodyguards

i'm not trying to be obtuse it just feels like really strange design

I posted about that (finding it unlikely). Can you recall that Maple was talking about them not being able to target the same person as the kill? So, wolf having a pro town role could be a balancing act and it messes with players. I still find it to be maybe too out there for it to be real.

The only other option is Benneh, who is pushing for Maple and I have to admit it's a solid push.

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 5 - Votes from post 1931 through 2074

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
2	Maple	Totally not Taffy (8), nebjiamn (16)
1	Totally not Taffy	Maple (12)
4	Not Voting	Visor (18), pzelda (22), waza (40), didistetter (23)

[waza]

ugh ben brother you do have some kinda rough posts regarding ladd/dya on d2 :(

[waza]

Eh Im just gonna send it

I'm an inventor and I gave nl a track last night. The whole *bombs* thing is a pretty funny coincidence.

You know it bud

Admittedly giving the item to visor IS wolfing because I knew he'd defend me without outing the info and I figured I needed someone to mason with me to live deeper into the game.

Just don't have the juice to go the hard way here, and since we're basically massclaiming already i figure this info is pretty important.

If I cross with the kill I die lol

idk how to describe it but something about maples claim seems kinda believable to me, the only unbelievable part is the fact they claimed at that moment with no pressure at all, and id expect a mech wiz like maple to know they didnt need to claim there and its -ev esp given they literally told wolves how to kill them??

if i entertain the idea of all PRs being town (which is not at all a given imo lol) things shake up something like this aorn for me, tiers unordered within:

nebjiamn
Arctic
Maple
Taffy

didistetter
annika

pzelda
waza

ladd
Visor
Lissa
Ender
dyachei




im gonna fuck off and conserve my last 11 posts or whatever. i think rn i'm leaning toward an elim in ladd/dya/ender/maple but i don't really know how i want to prioritize all these claims yet so mmmv

gth if all claims are true (unlikely) pzelda really needs to be given a true look-see

bro you managed to mention every person in your poe in this post except for lissa lmao

[nebjiamn]

i've been so fucking ditzy today im so sorry
@nebjiamn spell it out for me please

how does a mafia team of: bomb remover, tracker/role cop/doctor joat, + disloyal jailkeep/vanilla cop/tracker inventor

make sense with: town bomb planter + town even/odd redirector bodyguards

-as a way to force balance without giving town an extra PR
-in a world manti is also some sorta arso
-allows wolves to wifom actions (see: doctor)

i'm not trying to be obtuse it just feels like really strange design

i mean, ya, but lots of the confirmed design has been strange already. idk. judge it off posts and who do you think it is?

[nebjiamn]

idk how to describe it but something about maples claim seems kinda believable to me, the only unbelievable part is the fact they claimed at that moment with no pressure at all, and id expect a mech wiz like maple to know they didnt need to claim there and its -ev esp given they literally told wolves how to kill them??




bro you managed to mention every person in your poe in this post except for lissa lmao

think ur blind bruv

[nebjiamn]

aright im gonna have my taffy rant

ngl i went back to actually look at their claim again properly

and yeah i get it, i see it, i know it

its very unlikely for it to belong to a pack wolf unless its specifically written that way to messs with town, in which case like yeah u usually just accept that isnt the case most of the time

the problem is, despite the claim and despite taffy sounding towny from time to time, there is still a lot of question marks that really dont get answered. thhe first of which is how are we on d4?d5? and there still hasnt been an ignite @Totally not Taffy friendo with a role like this we really need you to have used it by now so we know it exists. on n2 you holster, n3 its on lissa (okay maybe i accept some blame on this because at first i asked you to douse lissa but i did change to maple but idk if you saw it), n4 idek what you did (so ig that means today is d5 lol)

and there still exists the fact that IF maple is town that both arctic and maple (possibly 2 town prs) had an issue with ur claim and dont believe it

so the fact of the matter is, i think at some point taffy will get voted. if its not today, it will probably be later, UNLESS we find the pack wolf. but if we are playing to the worst case scenario and its someone deep theres a very likely chance that we go to an f3 with taffy, the deep wolf and some villa

and im being totally honest, if im that villa i sure as heck am going to struggle to not to vote taffy.

and i am certain almost every other villa will feel the same

because its the easy out

and i say this with nothing but love, but taffys timezone isnt the greatest + they probs really busy irl so theyre stuck to posting 10 times a day or around that mark. and dont get me wrong, i appreciate your posts and theyre solid posts for the most part, but if ur stuck against a super motivated ben or the deepwolf in zelda/visor/stett (in order of likeliness to be wolf) then its gonna be super hard for the last villa to get there and its likely the wolf will just outspam taffy

so if we dont kill taffy today, it will be under one circumstance

i want every non-maple slot to confirm to me that you have read and accepted taffys claim and you accept there is no way in ur mind this can be a wolf role. and if we let taffy get through today then we dont ever default to shrugyeeting them later, because if we do it today im sure we can still win even if its a miss, but if we do it later im sure we just lose

@Visor
@didistetter
@nebjiamn
@pzelda

i want to hear it from all of you, if you all think theres a zero chance taffy is a pack wolf ill take it, and if they live today im literally never voting them for the rest of the game, so if i end up in a f3 situation with any of you (hopefully im dead by then but IF i do) im literally just gonna quote this and park on you, so dont say i didnt warn you.

if taffy is 3p im fine with them taking the win, id be happy for my friend taffy if theyre a 3p and they managed to beat a stacked pl of town and wolves to solo win, as long as wolves dont win im happy lmao, i usually dont care about 3ps, so yeah to reiterate if you think theyre town or 3p 100% of the time i want to confirm from all your mouths

i don't think there's any reasonable chance taffy's a pack wolf

[waza]

the biggest plus to ben is that he decided to hard shield zelda when my poe outside the prs was zelda and ben, which inevitably shrinks the poe to just ben. which is in a vacuum towny. the only counterargument i can think as to why it isnt towny is that ben is a top 10 player as wolf and town, so hes aware that people generally for whatever reason think that expanding the poe this far into the game is scummy (its not imo its probs rand/nai, but that perception exists regardless) and hes probs aware that therefore shrinking the poe is regarded as towny esp when ur in that poe. so i wouldnt put it completely past him to play into that somewhat because at the end of the day a vet wolf like ben knows it really doesnt matter how big or small the poe is, as long as u have just 1 person u can push/outsurvive each day thats all you need, so a poe of 2 is enough as long as you keep that poe at a consistent 2 each day.

but to his credit he goes the extra mile and hard shields zelda, and hard pushes maple, whhereas if he was a wolf he had the option to just softly defend zelda whilst egging me on in other ways. or let others push taffy, he doesnt neccessarily have to get blood on his hands today by cutting off other pushes and taking sole responsibility by spearheading a maple yeet, which inevitably makes him look even worse in w!ben v!maple worlds after that

like im not sure what w!bens strategy would be heading into the next day, he has to essentially bank on getting me and visor yeeted which then means he cant nk either of us. i suppose he would realise he needs zeldas vote in that case so maybe i can see the vision of wanting to try and pocket zelda early, but that would mean the man is playing 3 days in advance without even knowing for sure hes gonna live this day lol

tldr i think ben defending zelda the way he did was probs towny unless hes playing 3 days ahead/being wifomy

the biggest downside to ben is that imo he didnt find people he is really good at reading at appropriate times. i brought up some of the stuff d1, so i wont rehash those reads, but even on d2, imo ladd and dya were both really towny. if i could see it im sure ben normally should be able to as well, hes great at reading both of them im pretty sure. and i know he caught lissa almost instantly in the mash, and i did mention d1 that lissa was playing into some similar habits she did in the wolf mash game. so yeah if i had to tinfoil bens d2 its less the fact he pushed arctic (tbh i havent even reached that part yet) and moreso that he couldnt find ladd v dya v or lissa w

[nebjiamn]

there was a game run previously here on the org where the dvc was very upset over how a flipped role implied the existence of a certain mechanic or extra role. this was a gemma game. i think a few of you were in it in fact

do i think this could be a similar case?

possibly

do i care in that scenario?

not really

[waza]

think ur blind bruv

why do you think wolves have an inventor that gives trackers when they already have a role that can track, serves no utility other than trying to clear themselves from the claim if lissa dies first. which tbf is pretty OP but like im not used to these kinda setups being a thing so idk how likely that is, given from my experience that sample size is exactly 0

[waza]

there was a game run previously here on the org where the dvc was very upset over how a flipped role implied the existence of a certain mechanic or extra role. this was a gemma game. i think a few of you were in it in fact

do i think this could be a similar case?

possibly

do i care in that scenario?

not really

yeah i was, i died n1 lol so i dont know much of it, i saw hally got mad and took her word for it so i stopped following. from my understanding that was due to a mod error and not something intentional, and i did see hally get pretty heated over it, so like i imagine gemma would avoid that this time around lmao but i could be wrong

[waza]

there was a game run previously here on the org where the dvc was very upset over how a flipped role implied the existence of a certain mechanic or extra role. this was a gemma game. i think a few of you were in it in fact

do i think this could be a similar case?

possibly

do i care in that scenario?

not really

but like doesnt the same apply to maples role?

[nebjiamn]

i found dya. i was the first to find dya. every time they posted it reaffirmed my read. the nature of being town in a game like this is that my perspective shifts very quickly to 'what have you done fo rme lately' and due to dya's inactivity it forced me to look in the wormhole and consider the possibility they could be maf.

i couldn't find ladd but i gave him plenty of space to work and didn't outright tunnel him. he just got annoyed with me at the end and fair enough. but i still found his day 1 kind of annoying to me, so whatevs

idk im obviously biased but you are describing all reasons i am town. i don't illicit this much paranoia about people i know aren't likely to go over when i can just pocket them to work my agenda instead (this is where ur sus re: me and my treatment of zelda is more apropos but he's just town and so am i so /shrugze, sometimes town has to wolf too)

[nebjiamn]

but like doesnt the same apply to maples role?

sure

but on posting and not factoring those things in i think maple is the wolfiest

i'm willing to give leeway on an overtly implied mechanic that should prove taffy isn't ever a pack wolf more than I am about the implied nature of a mechanic that could just be sillily balanced

[waza]

Hard game man

I used to be good at late game solving but I’ve defs lost the touch

Or the time to parse it the way I’d like

The cope in me wants it to be the latter but who knows lmao

[Visor]

Hard game man

I used to be good at late game solving but I’ve defs lost the touch

Or the time to parse it the way I’d like

The cope in me wants it to be the latter but who knows lmao

The more time you spend on ww generally the better the results

Sadly lol

[Totally not Taffy]

I wouldn't be surprised to find out that bit was a lie from Maple

What would be the purpose of that lie as either alignment?

Taffy (9)

[Visor]

What would be the purpose of that lie as either alignment?

Taffy (9)

Taffy please claim everything

[pzelda]

I agree with Ben on Taffy. I agree with Ben on a lot of things this game tbh. I don't think they're maf.

But I have this one problem. I think that Maple being mafia doesn't make a whole lot sense. I think locking all of waza/stett/visor as towns is ok. Visor was the one pushing lissa/benneh on d3 and I think he went against the consensus with that at that point. Waza and stett are just towns based on their activity + interactions with lissa. I don't feel like I need to talk about that in detail.

Benneh isn't locked. If it's not Maple, it's him. So, what's w Benneh's game here? Miselim another town pr, that would be powerwolfy as well and then probably start anew on d6. If Visor or waka is the nk, I'm probably the next miselim. Or taffy.

Or taffy could ignite and just end the game.

I think I want to vote out Benneh or Taffy more than Maple. Taffy needs to drop in and post their actions asap tbh.

I hope to continue my reread in the evening, but I don't think I could do better than waza. Also, I feel like atm I'm looking for scummy in benneh's posts and towny in Maple's, which might be a faulty approach.

[pzelda]

What would be the purpose of that lie as either alignment?

Taffy (9)

To mess with town/mafia

[Totally not Taffy]

Well considering that taffy Stett and Zelda all checked in and the summary of which is:
Stett: provides a lol pairing of me and taffy, says it’s time to reread the game, comes back and concludes there’s a rask and lissa partner which we already assumed may be the case and didn’t say much else

Taffy: provides a lol pairing of me and maple, and a lol pairing of me and stett, then appeals to the people they’re calling scum then dips and didn’t say much else useful

Zelda: comes in and summaries the already nothingburger of posts the other two said, provides a lol post to me asking who is a wolf whilst implying they don’t think it’s taffy, somehow ignores the lol posts the other two slots made and then decides to pick mine apart, then makes a big wall which says nothing new other than concluding there’s “probably” a wolf alive in the people not clear


lol

Just lol

Idk man seems like a wim killer because atleast one of these slots has to be town, maybe more but it’s incredibly hard to parse when I don’t understand what a single one of them is doing which makes it hard to distinguish which is the wolf doing wolf things and which are the villagers doing wolf things

Like lol

If we're being ungenerous, then what you've done today up till that post is come in, defended yourself for unvoting Lissa, announced an intention to shrug yeet a town PR bc you cba to solve and mocked the three players who've shown any interest in doing so

If you don't want it to be a dead day don't let it
We have a dead wolf you can read her iso

Taffy (10)

[nebjiamn]

Taffy, each post you make where you continue to ignore people asking you to claim your actions increases the odds you die here by like 15%/post just FYI. idk if you need help reading the room or not but

just claim your actions already

[Totally not Taffy]

I started rereading D4. Benneh bussing this hard doesn't make sense. Also, I feel like he would have tried to push me as a potential yeet at least once if he had ramded wolf.
I know I'm mostly townread because of my meta and me usually flaking a lot more as mafia. Bur stett, waza and Taffy don't have meta on me and I think he could be able to convince other players too.
So, that last wolf has been either afraid going against consensus or it's afraid of going against their meta read on me. And both Visor and Mantis would be willing to throw their meta in the bin just to miselim me as wolves.

I feel like running in circles, but I'm back to looking at maple/taffy. Tbh everyone else is just town.

Fwiw my townreading of you is partially sheeping the ppl with meta, but also your reads have internal consistency. I don't agree with your reasons for town/wolf reading ppl at times, but the whole of your reads seem coherent.

Taffy (11)

[Visor]

Taffy if you don't claim you are just gonna die for Christ's sake

[Totally not Taffy]

lissa was probably a sunk cost yesterday. Mafia aren't trying to save her after such close wagons, and she literally ghosted thread. Care about ben's d1/d2, not his d4

I disagree with this take, actually, I remember several posts at SoD4 defending Lissa (I found Maple's there particularly bad) and arguing for why she was town despite the awful EoD, and like Happy said her wim only dropped when Visor kept up the push. Also mechanically, they'd have wanted to have the doc N4 so they could kill me/him safely.

Taffy (12)

[nebjiamn]

this is like talking to apoc (but better since taffy is cooler than apoc)

[Totally not Taffy]

Ok, to be fair to Benneh, Lissa started interacting with him after that post. I don't think Benneh has ever responded to the wplfsiding question. Also, this makes me wanna say Maple town.

I disagree completely. She's replying to Benneh who just called out Happy for his repeated jokes about bussing Rask (who she knows to be an afk wolf), if anything I'd say she was encouraging town!Benneh to tie town!Happy to wolf!Rask.

And her Maple read here is "I don't want to vote Maple but if she later flips wolf well oh dear me aren't I easily pocketed".

Taffy (13)