Kylo Ren's Banana Time Mafia

[ladd]

unfortunately that period of hours was most of when I had planned to do a bunch of things and I will not have a TON more in the extra 12h but ohhh welllllll let's see what we can do here

EoD is just 1 hour late

anyway

vote:visor

:curtain

[Raskolnikov]

unfortunately that period of hours was most of when I had planned to do a bunch of things and I will not have a TON more in the extra 12h but ohhh welllllll let's see what we can do here

what do you think of Visor after ladd's posts?

Kind of have Ladd as a villager rn so I am revisiting some avenues. I still think it's prolly best to go Maple first but u thinking rn.

Also you have one hour and half I believe. gl

[Visor]

maybe my meta is off base but i dont think this would be your reaction to lissa hard pushing somoene if u were a villager

you would vote jan with lissa or something, instead of sitting on a vote on manti:

man reading your posts on this page is something

you are deliberately taking the least charitable interpretations of everything i am saying lol

for one: i already wolfread manti - and voting there is not just 'sitting there', but from memory, he didn't even have any votes at that point in the day - going into eod it seemed prudent to me to at least swing the spotlight around there

second, I DO vote jan when i get back for eod - it feels like the way you are framing my posts if i did one you'd have an issue and if i did the other you'd have an issue lol.

If i was going to vote jan and bus him, i'd just have bussed him. like i do in every wolf game when i bus, you either commit or you defend, if you are gonna bus you gotta get the credit, and letting lissa and others take the credit if i am willing to bus jan is both stupid and not how I wolf, which i know you know, because i won a wolf game on here a while back my bussing the fuck out of my partners

i hate when people use inaccurate meta for bad reads, so reading these things is tilting, but if you're a wolf thats your line and whatever

the fact that your posting today has been implicit defences of manti by pushing me has not gone unnoticed fwiw - every time i bring him up to you you say you are not defending them, but you keep pushing me and never talk about them

it just feels to me that your attention has not been to find my alignment, its to find dirt to push me to get me into contention for death

i've never seen you play like this before as a villager, but being the target of this just makes it stand out all the more

[Visor]

sunbae - until d3 i dodnt see why he couldnt be a wolf but i think his posting today and the conclusion he has come to are both correct and villagery in processo so maybe i am a sucker but i think he is just a village

so why is it a problem that i had this read earlier than you lol????

wild

[Raskolnikov]

what do you think of Visor after ladd's posts?

Kind of have Ladd as a villager rn so I am revisiting some avenues. I still think it's prolly best to go Maple first but I am thinking rn.

Also you have one hour and half I believe. gl

I made a joke about it in #894 put I do think it's a little weird from Visor to keep posting my reads have been sucky this game. Maybe there is something into it. maybe not. (it's not about the judgement in itself, just the effort of posting it several times, to me, to others etc)

[Visor]

I made a joke about it in #894 put I do think it's a little weird from Visor to keep posting my reads have been sucky this game. Maybe there is something into it. maybe not. (it's not about the judgement in itself, just the effort of posting it several times, to me, to others etc)

i don't think i have posted it that many times, but it is (unfortunately) a core part of my read lol

you being wrong on me, coming in today saying you v read jan and w read cape, these are just things that stand out to me

(i really need to save my posts lol)

[Raskolnikov]

i don't think i have posted it that many times, but it is (unfortunately) a core part of my read lol

you being wrong on me, coming in today saying you v read jan and w read cape, these are just things that stand out to me

(i really need to save my posts lol)

allright. (shrug about Cape, I was right about him when it mattered, ie I didn't push nor vote there )

fwiw I do think not killing Maple here would be borderline throwing here :sparkleshrug:

[Lissa]

EoD is just 1 hour late

anyway

vote:visor

:curtain

yeah i see now

doesn't rly make much difference in my case ngl

the time i was gonna do things in is almost done either way lmao

well anyway


man i forgot how short d1 was

also can't believe i let waza die ever in this game

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 908

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	EnderWiggin (21), Raskolnikov (30), Visor (57)
1	Visor	ladd (28)
3	Not Voting	Lissa (43), Maple (14), Sunbae (29)

Deadline timer

[ladd]

If i was going to vote jan and bus him, i'd just have bussed him. like i do in every wolf game when i bus, you either commit or you defend, if you are gonna bus you gotta get the credit, and letting lissa and others take the credit if i am willing to bus jan is both stupid and not how I wolf, which i know you know, because i won a wolf game on here a while back my bussing the fuck out of my partners

i mean maybe you didnt want to buss jan? i think your 2 naked votes are in perfect distancing range. Then jan claims and i dont really feel like you evaluate if his claim is wolfy or not, you just make this post:

If we don't kill Jan and I don't really want to kill lissa

I will accept maple ender or waza

assuming y'all are not killing jan but without giving a critical view of jan's claim

idk man, when i re read the thread i just felt everytime it was about jan your heart was not into it (kinda like haroldhidethepain.jpg)

it also stood out cause you were pushing vanta/cape/rask/waza just fine but when it came to jan it didnt really feel like you wanted it to me shrug.jpg

(and tbh same kinda applies to maple as in you never pushed hard for their death while saying you were confident they were a wolf)

i hate when people use inaccurate meta for bad reads, so reading these things is tilting, but if you're a wolf thats your line and whatever

i mean i can explain why i think you are a wolf pretty easily never referencing meta, thats really just a small part of my argument (and given your reaction i believe you believe my meta to be incorrect regardless of your alignment so okay):

- your vanta/cape w/w read was wolfy

- your treatment of jan was wolfy and your eod push on waza was wolfy for reasons i explained above and in my catch up

- your focus on linking me and maple is wolfy cause you should know maple is alway getting lunched this game. It genuinely does not matter and no one would defend them as w/w here (in fact i am not defending them, you are just trying to link me to them)

the fact that your posting today has been implicit defences of manti by pushing me has not gone unnoticed fwiw - every time i bring him up to you you say you are not defending them, but you keep pushing me and never talk about them

brah they have been sitting at 3 votes out of 7 players since SoD and everyone knows they will be lunched tody 99,999% of the times. why would i talk about them more than find the other wolf

[ladd]

so why is it a problem that i had this read earlier than you lol????

wild

well cause imo sunbae was not particularly villagery until his most recent spurt of posts?

your read was based on his body of work until d2. my read is based on his posts today



but ymmv

[EnderWiggin]

to explain more to visor what my read progressione on ender was (as i remember it at least, honestly i completely disconnected from the game those days trekking that i dont fully remember how i felt about some stuff, which is a weird feeling9




this like jumped to a conclusion (vanta wolf) and made conclusion from it too quickly. the fact that ender would be irritatde if waza is right based on the assumptions that vanta is a wolf and would spew knights villa just seemed weird to me



i dont think vanta start was particularly rough and if you thought so...why not give them space from the beginning?

@EnderWiggin

Vanta felt very wolfy off rip to me. But then it was kind of a "shrug vanta is wolfy" echoed in thread which reminded me of why they get killed a lot for no reason so I intentionally decided to step off and focus elsewhere.

[Lissa]

wheeeeee how the fuck do i talk about my sunbae concerns

honestly i am kind of worried about a sunbae ladd world (i know i said i thought they were kinda unpaired i can't remember why rn)

hopefully maple is just a wolf and i look a wee bit silly

she could easily be im just not like..... convinced

i dont really think sunbae ladd is the world i think lol

I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.

I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.



Vote:Lissa

is this post about five villas

do i care about this post

Ladd is in the weird position where I think he could be a wolf, but there is no point in pushing him today, when he is mostly gone for this phase.
The n1 kill makes me think Ladd will be alive for a while, and we can talk about him when he is back.

I agree with waza that sunbae might be someone to look at if you are a villager (or rather if rask/you is v/v).
I don't have a strong read on you, but I rarely read you these days. You either find a wolf and die at night or don't find a wolf and die during the day.

I don't think this game has a lot of "counter culture" simply because most people could still be wolves and reads are fairly soft.

this was such a weird post about ladd but i dont reaalllly think i care too much

Read thread.

1 wolf in Ladd/Ender
1 wolf in Maple/Rask
1 wolf in Waza/Lissa/Jan



I have Visor/Cape as my villagers.

I currently lean the wolf team being Ladd/Rask/Waza but that's more just a shot in the dark. I feel pretty great about the wolf groupings though.

hmm

if sunbae is a villa this (the groupings not the specific team) was probably right lol

[Lissa]

2. The way Raskol defends Maple in #221 (“maple was just lacking at the time”) in an effort to shade Enders vote on Maple was something I noted. Rask also had a post in #241 pairing up Lissa/Maple as “coordinated” and then again in #262 calling the wolf team Ender/Lissa/Maple and yet again in #299 asking Ladd “why logic instead Maple” to vote. The ways that Rask is shading Maple in some posts and defending in others strikes me as something unpaired because to me Rask would be consistent with either defending or shading, not oscillating between the two.

calling that post from rask originally a defense of maple (i mean it technically is but it's sort of a strong word for it) is a bit weird the post was basically saying /why/ was odd but that there couldve been a more reasonably based vote for her lacking

idk i just have an off feeling about like some of the things sunbae has chosen to talk about and how he's described some things and i can't really figure out how to explain it

[EnderWiggin]

Ngl I was gonna do a proper reread tonight but the site shitting itself when I had time to do that has kinda killed my WIM to do it lol.

[Lissa]

Ngl I was gonna do a proper reread tonight but the site shitting itself when I had time to do that has kinda killed my WIM to do it lol.

yeah it was pretty rough timing, i dont really have the time or energy to fully do it now before eod

[EnderWiggin]

To echo Lissa I do feel like Sunbae hasn't tried to vibe in the way they normally do. There's been a lot of conclusiony statements instead of actual interacting working on solves if that makes sense? That's probably a bad read but nyeh.

[Raskolnikov]

If i was going to vote jan and bus him, i'd just have bussed him. like i do in every wolf game when i bus, you either commit or you defend, if you are gonna bus you gotta get the credit, and letting lissa and others take the credit if i am willing to bus jan is both stupid and not how I wolf, which i know you know, because i won a wolf game on here a while back my bussing the fuck out of my partners

i hate when people use inaccurate meta for bad reads, so reading these things is tilting, but if you're a wolf thats your line and whatever

fwiw I do remember your treatment of pzelda in the first MD game

Your treatment of jan start of day 2 feels a bit the same way (you pinged him implying the NK was pointing at him) though I guess the context is somewhat different (it was clear pzelda was dying D1 in that MD game).

[ladd]

reading the last page i do think hell world sunbae/visor is unlikely. unless they are doing some elaborate good cop vs bad cop ploy i don't feel those pages with me/visor/sunbae in it would happen the same way if they were w/w?

i am pretty locked in on visor/maple, it just makes ~everything fit for me (just a bit spooked by jan v list lissa posted and jan voting maple/visor in quick succession on eod2 but i think it's reasonable he was in anti spew given he had already claimed)

if i am wrong sorry, c'est la vie

second most likely team is probably sunbae/maple, then sunbae/visor and then sunbae/ender

[Lissa]

To echo Lissa I do feel like Sunbae hasn't tried to vibe in the way they normally do. There's been a lot of conclusiony statements instead of actual interacting working on solves if that makes sense? That's probably a bad read but nyeh.

hmm yeah there's some of that too, but i will say that interacting in this game actually has been pretty hard at least for me so i don't know if that's necessarily as meaningful as it would generally be, the presence/time around spread has been pretty wide and there feels like a lot of ships passing in the night

but his like areas of focus just feel, idk.

he just feels off and i hate to make a read like this that i can't elaborate on because i know it is a royal pain in the ass to be wolfread for something like that and to try to respond to it/engage with it lol

idk maybe a little overly formulaic? there's just a desync to it all, that some of could come from the flow of this game, but it's like a lot of us are singing a song and he's singing well but he is singing it like 5 seconds delayed and a bit off key

[Raskolnikov]

Been thinking at the mechs a bit, 3 poison bombs left.

Cape died with the fourth and noone is poisoned. So one wolf gotan antidote from Waza right? let me reread that Waza role

[Lissa]

surprisingly tired for 6:30 lol i wonder if i could sleep

rereading eod2, i can understand ladds concerns re visor ig

god jans claim was so wolfy why didnt i just kill it

internal screaming

im so sorry waza lol

jan voting maple when me him waza were tied 2 and maple had a vote on is kinda fascinating

maybe he really thought he could live the night lol

idrc to read into it re maple thats just a level

it prolly says some stuff about wolf #3 in the maple w world. maybe. meh.

[ladd]

I dont think it matters - all we know is that a wolf has an antitode but it could come from waza role or from knights role and waza targets are kinda random so ya

[Raskolnikov]

waza was:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Town Choice Paralyzed Antidote Giver
You are Town. You win when all threats to Town have been eliminated.

You start the game with the item: Kylo Ren Plushy. (It does nothing.)

During pregame, provide the host with a list of 5 players and select 1 of those players to be your preferred choice. You will give an Antidote to a player on the list chosen at random by the game host. If your preferred choice is not selected with the first rand, the target will be randed again.

On Nights 1 and 2, provide the host with a list of 3 players. You will give an Antidote to a random player on the list. On Night 1, you can choose to give up your action that Night but gain the ability to choose a single target on Night 2.

Your targets will not be notified of having received an Antidote. You will not be told who you targeted. If you do not submit any targets you will give an Antidote to a random player, or if a list is incomplete players will be added to it at random until it is complete.

At the time of their death, waza had the following item:



theknightsofneeee leaves the game. (They may still achieve their win condition.)


It's Night 2. Send in actions at least 1 hour before deadline!

hmm a bit hard to figure out who waza chose pregame and what he did n1.

Still a nice feeling the wolves are at risk tonight :rideau:

[Lissa]

Been thinking at the mechs a bit, 3 poison bombs left.

Cape died with the fourth and noone is poisoned. So one wolf gotan antidote from Waza right? let me reread that Waza role

jan prolly carried. seems like what you always do there unless you thought there was a block of some sort also itg

and i mean i guess that probably explains in some part why jan took the gamba if ender is a villa, odds of hitting a bomb were actually pretty damn high anyway

[ladd]

Oh ya jan carrying is also possible


I mean wolves gotta also have some way to deal with the bombs (prolly like a role cop equivalent?)

[Lissa]

Oh ya jan carrying is also possible


I mean wolves gotta also have some way to deal with the bombs (prolly like a role cop equivalent?)

also likely otherwise its sorta a ridiculous minefield

[Visor]

lemme put down some thoughts before eod, probably gonna save the rest of my posts for that

1. Raskolnikov
3. Sunbae
4. ladd
5. EnderWiggin
12. Maple
13. Lissa

Lissa: lissa is a funny one, if you look at d1 in isolation you could convince me she is a wolf - i came out pushing her a bit late d1 and early d2 in part because i don't think she really kicked on to anything - she felt like a sidelines/commentary character at that point. going into d2 i was expecting some heat there and she played in a way that is close to my heart - for the last while i have been very busy and it has been hard for me to play ww, sometimes i play a game and i just cant get a handle on it because i am not able to get invested or really absorb what people are posting. but occasionally i try to just focus in on one read that i am confident in v or w and push that because that is the only lifeline i have found that i can cling onto. sometimes i will do these things in mashes too when the game is too fast for my advanced years lol. when i saw her push on jan, i felt that kind of emotion, even if it isn't necessarily what lissa was doing, but because i have been there so many times over the last couple years that i saw myself there in what she was doing and it made me step back a bit and reconsider my push.

you could absolutely make the argument she bussed - the typical lines like one strong read, no real wavering, etc. i think (as i mentioned earlier) that holistically theres an argument for it and lissa is definitely canny enough to pull off the bus, but on an emotional level for me despite her d1, it is hard for me to get over seeing that line of play and coming away not village reading her. i think her play today has also similarly had an emotive level to it that she FEELS she is clear, particularly noting her bite back to rask earlier today. if shes a wolf shes fuckin me over like that thing game, which is unfortunate lol, but shes played well.

Maple: I have answered this one multiple times and I've reread manti a few times now trying to see something different but I just am not seeing it. I see someone who (probably?) doesn't have the time to play but it is still checking in to make posts out of a sense of obligation. I don't think that is necessarily wolfy in and of itself, but i think the fact that manti has not had.... any real reads? any real stances? i think most of their responses are some variation of omgus (either real or jokingly). I know manti can have a wide range and they can certainly play like this as both alignments but overall I just can't find the sheriff manti in there, or a spark of inspiration or anything that says even though i don't have time for the game, i still 'felt this thing'. it looks like a wolf on a team that doesn't exactly have time for the game, and their partners probably don't either.

Ender: i've talked earlier about the lines regarding w/v re shooting jan and i am doing my best generally to ignore it at this point because it is a lot of WIFOM. i think his entry d1 was poor and was (to use lazy terminology) a kind of wolfy catchup. i don't mind him being focused on me d2, i get it, if someone is pushing you like that and they're wrong (or at least you have to affect that they are wrong) it makes sense, especially with some of his lines using the kind of emotive language that felt like actual frustration in some parts towards me. he has been hard to disentangle from ladd because of how ladd handled him but i think i agree with the points sunbae made yesterday and that it is a sloppy play if w/w, but if nobody has the time, sloppy plays are sometimes all that results. regardless, i think he posted well at sod (and then not at all apparently iirc?) and answered my questions in a quick enough fashion that i have some pause here. theres a lot of thoughts about potential lines re wolf/villa. i can see the potential gambit (there's a line where wolves are something like (ladd/maple) and ender where nobody has any time and they are just doing a gambit to win). in isolation i still don't like his d1 posts, his posts about maple are okay i guess. i need to ruminate more on his d2 i think

ladd: talked about a fair bit, really hated his ender progression, felt unnatural to me (especially going from such strong wording choices), and then i think today (which is probably just my confirmation bias) i think the way he has framed his arguments and searched for things that have.... like a kernel of truth surrounded by a nugget of shit to throw to get potential heat off him. i thought d1 he actually posted p well for the most part up until the ender posts - when he said he wolf read ender i was like hot damn, maybe there is something here, and then i wake up to the flip and that was just bizarre. i don't really care about his posts re waza and i don't really know what they are expected to achieve - it kind of just feels like grasping at something to hopefully hit a convincing chord. theres a wild world where its ender/ladd and maple is just straight up punting the game but that sounds awful lol. i think that individually some of the posts he has made today has actually been ok, it is hard to weigh against a collective though.

Sunbae: sunbae is in that category of players i will usually refrain from making a strong read early on unless i actually have a strong read just because i think it clutters the thread sometimes and what use is there to saying someone is ok sometimes lol. i know ladd pointed out the jan read stuff, but if you go back and read that its not a hard defence its just him putting out there that he has a personal read on jan. when i asked him about that he couldn't even explain it. which on one hand is convenient if wolfing together lol, but on the other it doesn't provide a huge level of protection. its also a strong read to commit to so early and if you are going to go that route, i would have expected more force in the midday of d2 to push the kill into a different direction, you could've got me killed, lissa killed, maybe rask, there were other options out there to make that push on if you wanted to commit to that line, but also you can turn around at that point as well. its hard to point to a specific flaw in sunbaes posting and say that is the gotcha or thats where he slipped. i've poked and prodded around a bit but at the end of the day i just haven't found anything that tells me that sunbae is wolfing in a way i feel confident in expressing. to me i can see the progression of his thoughts throughout the game, including how he came to the rask/me reads and the ender/ladd read i thought was quite good and turned around my thinking there. similar to lissa i feel like i could make reasons for him to be a wolf, but i just don't feel like he is.

rask: man this one is tough for me. back in the day i could read rask really well, but i think we have both changed a fair bit over the last couple years and even speccing some games of rask his playstyle as both alignments has evolved a fair bit. i think his d1 is just not good - i have said this multiple times and i think the way he approached me was really wolfy. he has been weirdly super transparent since then about his thought process and indeed stepping back and trying to reassess me and turning around his read there, which i mean its all you can ask for right? if hes a villager he corrected his mistake and got to the right read with a decent progress of listening to others takes and adjusting accordingly. i feel like today i felt a struggle from him, where he was almost like a sinking sailor grasping for that life ring things, trying to find the winning line to get out of here before things get worse. that kind of feeling makes me think that everythign else aside, he might just be a villager who has just had every wrong read p much. if rask is a wolf and gets out of my grip like he did in that fucking giraffe board game imma be sad though, and i really dont want to lose to rask wolf because he will send me reminders every three months lmao. when i compare his posting to ladd and maple today he feels erratic, he feels like he doesn't have answers and i hope to god that is correct lol.

it is possible i am townreading a bus, or process over results (which isnt necessarily good for good players lol) or what ahve you, but right now i am not able to move past where i am, i have read and reread multiple times

c'est la vie, thats where i am.

did anyone read this btw - idk what the point of posting my thoughts is if nobody is gonna say shit


re ladd: you literally townread sunbae d1 lol???

here i will quote your own posts for you:

I am mostly okay with all of jan,visor,cape,vanta,waza,sunbae,rask

Not that they have to be all villagers but yall seem fine enuf for now

Waza/cape/rask vvv

Jan/sunbae vv

Ender/lissa/vanta v

Logic/maple/visor w

Done i solved the game

idk sunbae seemed fine to me. ofc he could be a wolf cause gamestate hasnt really been challenging enough for a lot of people to be out of any kind of range

anything in particular worries you about him?

(the last one isn't anything super noteworthy re sunbae v read, just figured i'd add it)

sure it wasn't like LOCK TOWN or anything, but you certainly didn't seem like you had compunctions about him d1

and then you didn't even read his posts of substance d2 self admittedly lol.

i feel like every time i point out a problem with your posting

re nk:

i agree that it is likely jan carried

lissa, ender can you please talk to me about both your issues with sunbae and your non issues with ladd?

what am i missing here?

obv i am not going to actually reply because i think i have like one post left but still

[Raskolnikov]

i've got a pretty long case detailing the last wolves in the game that is focused on the game from a deepwolf perspective. its more legacy than anything but i wanted to use this post to emphasize that, should I die, this post should not be ignored. please please please do not ignore this upcoming post.

i don't think it is worth using KP to go down this path yet, but should we end up in a worst case scenario of having gone 0/2 or maybe just 1/2 on the lunch/vigs tonight, then please please please give my case a hard look. if i'm wrong and we are just correct on Maple/Ladd or Maple/Visor logic tonight then i'll look pretty silly but that's OK cause we won. if not, follow my lead.

alright, having said that:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 3 - Votes from post 680 through 928

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
3	Maple	EnderWiggin (24), Raskolnikov (33), Visor (58)
1	Visor	ladd (33)
3	Not Voting	Lissa (50), Maple (14), Sunbae (29)

Deadline timer (7 mins)