Kylo Ren's Banana Time Mafia

[Sunbae]

I will not pick someone that I don't even think is town. Sorry.

I liked cape, ender and sunbae the most when catching up today.

I think this was a good post by waza while everything else he did was kind of whatever.



Vote:Lissa

vote: Jan

Just vibes mostly. I went over all his posts and didn't really see anything that said town. One post in particular about voting a villager so as to keep Knights around longer, as I guess his stumpness is over as soon as we ax a wolf. Kind of sounded like he thought he could make that happen. Anyway it pinged me.

Also I took an antihistamine and fell asleep at my computer which is not helping my mental sharpness at all.

Thought Ender's beginning series of posts was...strange? It seemed to me that it sounded like he had read the thread, but then was reacting to things as if he had not read the thread (like not knowing that Knights had flipped, and there was something else that now escapes my woozy brain). He looked better to me later though.

Of the current vote leaders. logic hasn't said a lot but also only a few posts, while Lissa has a lot of posts but I can't remember her saying a lot in all those posts. So if I had to go with one of those two it'd be Lissa.

yeah i mean its a fair play if you are a villager, obv, been thinking about it while not itt and it's obviously a line that makes sense for you here in that world, was just kinda weirded out at you not acknowledging more the part where it /does/ require betting the game on you v in order to confirm you v

Yeah I get it. Which is why I called it audacity!

Could I get your thoughts in as much detail as possible on a potential Visor/Ladd world? Earlier I called it the most logical one if I just ignore posting (ender shoots jan, you heavily case jan, visor and ladd are just good posting woofs). And if you don't want to be convincing me because you think I'm a wolf pretend you're convincing Ender of it!

[Lissa]

Yeah I get it. Which is why I called it audacity!

Could I get your thoughts in as much detail as possible on a potential Visor/Ladd world? Earlier I called it the most logical one if I just ignore posting (ender shoots jan, you heavily case jan, visor and ladd are just good posting woofs). And if you don't want to be convincing me because you think I'm a wolf pretend you're convincing Ender of it!

not sure gimme a few I'd honestly have to look. I haven't really even thought about that world; a lot of my thinking about stuff in general yesterday sorta got cut off from having time to play out and I townread visor so strongly that's not really an angle I was even really thinking about

[Sunbae]

Oh I think I solved the game hold on

[ladd]

Ill make the game slightly easier and say i am never even looking at lissa, i just dont see them as a wolf ever

Its not even jan spew, i just dont think they are a wolf based on posting

The wolves are 2 in visor/sunbae/ender

[ladd]

Sunbae is playing a sick f5 if he is a wolf ngl

I am trying to ignore valuing f5 posting too much but eh



(More sunbae/ladd w/w ammo )

[Gemma]

Turby Org Vote Counter v1.0
Day 4 - Votes from post 942 through 1025

Votes	Target	Voters (Posts in Phase)
5	Not Voting	EnderWiggin (0), Lissa (13), Sunbae (39), Visor (22), ladd (9)

Votes are locked.

[Sunbae]

The question that has been plaguing me since sod3 is “why did Jan give the gun to ender” and I haven't been able to figure it out. The missing piece popped into head just now skimming Lissa's earlier post: that she held the parting gift because she was afraid of using it if Maple was a villager and ending the game.

The part about holding the parting gift was the part I initially focused on because it confirmed to me that Jan could have held it and chose not to. Which really blew my mind given the fact that the wolves were about to be going to final 8 with 3 of them alive. That's one mischop left to win in a game where the village was all over the place and Maple was lined up as everyones most likely wolf. Even if Jan holstered it and people wanted to find him as outed for it he still gets chopped and then we kill Maple the next day and lose.

It made no sense to me and I've been going back and forth on it. The part that just clicked for me is that you have to submit your target before end of day. It's a day action.

Well now there becomes a logical option that explains everything. Jan submit the action before Waza died right at the last second via Cape's vote. In fact Jan told us when he submit: Post #649. Of course if Jan dies then his submission doesn't matter. But it matters a whole lot if he lives. Again it gives us a free miskill if he lives.

Unless.

A wolf dies anyways. Well then Jan sending to Ender makes sense because we're about to go to 6/2, NOT 5/3. And one of the two is Jan who just had to claim to save himself and is not long for this world.

The wagons when Jan submit in #649?

3 votes Jan
3 votes Lissa

and then lissa voted elsewhere to put herself in the lead.

Imagine if you will Jan expecting to either die or for Lissa, a teammate, to die. Sending the shot to Ender to go the distance is a hail mary but one that is perfectly logical. It's 6/2, he kills Jan to make 6/1 instead of chopping Jan we chop Maple, 4/1 and a lot of in fighting between ladd/rask/visor/myself. Nobody thinks its weird for Ender to live over any of them at end game. The path is set.

Then, surprise. Waza dies. It's 5/3 now. If we chop Jan next its 4/2. We sleep. Its 3/2 and really tight. Theyve had to make two night kills. Why not just take the sleep out of the way and get the maple chop through? Ender and Lissa are in great shape now if Jan dies (after all, they started bussing each other for after lissa died so they dont look paired).

[Sunbae]

Why is lissas Jan push the only part of the game she has conviction? Why does ender vote Lissa over Jan/Visor/Maple? Why does Jan send a gun to Ender during the day?

Because they are wolves.

[Sunbae]

Ill make the game slightly easier and say i am never even looking at lissa, i just dont see them as a wolf ever

Its not even jan spew, i just dont think they are a wolf based on posting

The wolves are 2 in visor/sunbae/ender

well thats a hell of an xpost lol

[Lissa]

The question that has been plaguing me since sod3 is “why did Jan give the gun to ender” and I haven't been able to figure it out. The missing piece popped into head just now skimming Lissa's earlier post: that she held the parting gift because she was afraid of using it if Maple was a villager and ending the game.

The part about holding the parting gift was the part I initially focused on because it confirmed to me that Jan could have held it and chose not to. Which really blew my mind given the fact that the wolves were about to be going to final 8 with 3 of them alive. That's one mischop left to win in a game where the village was all over the place and Maple was lined up as everyones most likely wolf. Even if Jan holstered it and people wanted to find him as outed for it he still gets chopped and then we kill Maple the next day and lose.

It made no sense to me and I've been going back and forth on it. The part that just clicked for me is that you have to submit your target before end of day. It's a day action.

Well now there becomes a logical option that explains everything. Jan submit the action before Waza died right at the last second via Cape's vote. In fact Jan told us when he submit: Post #649. Of course if Jan dies then his submission doesn't matter. But it matters a whole lot if he lives. Again it gives us a free miskill if he lives.

Unless.

A wolf dies anyways. Well then Jan sending to Ender makes sense because we're about to go to 6/2, NOT 5/3. And one of the two is Jan who just had to claim to save himself and is not long for this world.

The wagons when Jan submit in #649?

3 votes Jan
3 votes Lissa

and then lissa voted elsewhere to put herself in the lead.

Imagine if you will Jan expecting to either die or for Lissa, a teammate, to die. Sending the shot to Ender to go the distance is a hail mary but one that is perfectly logical. It's 6/2, he kills Jan to make 6/1 instead of chopping Jan we chop Maple, 4/1 and a lot of in fighting between ladd/rask/visor/myself. Nobody thinks its weird for Ender to live over any of them at end game. The path is set.

Then, surprise. Waza dies. It's 5/3 now. If we chop Jan next its 4/2. We sleep. Its 3/2 and really tight. Theyve had to make two night kills. Why not just take the sleep out of the way and get the maple chop through? Ender and Lissa are in great shape now if Jan dies (after all, they started bussing each other for after lissa died so they dont look paired).

heres the thing

i was absolutely not in real contention to die at that point

i am absolutely confident that as things stood as of post 649 i was never dying and this was extremely clear inthread

on a concrete level, visor was off wagon and would clearly always go jan over me there

anyway, honestly jan sending in that world makes arguably even less sense because he should look better if i flipped wolf and the fact that it's mechanically correct for the target of that to just kill the user if they don't hard clear them

[Sunbae]

hmph

[Sunbae]

gonna wait for ladd to chime in on that

can i at least have an acknowledgement that im kinda villagery for trying to figure this out lissa? a lil cookie plz

[ladd]

Sorry friendo but i think thats a lot of assumption when the explanations could easily be "for fun" or simply "to send ender deep"

I think jan/lissa look unaligned from super early on (d1) and lissa pushed jan in a moment where there was no need to as a wolf. Their posting since show the mindset of a villager who thinks they are clear and yesterday they clearly had a lingering paranoia that imo only villagers are able to show as subtly as lissa did

I get thats maybe not the best explanation but in the end they are just a villager posting like a villager imo

[ladd]

Like yesterday you could clearly see they were paranoid of maple flipping v and scared of hell world but didnt have enough convinction to push against it

[Sunbae]

IM GONNA WAIT FOR VISOR

(lol ok ok fine ill finally drop it)

[Lissa]

Why is lissas Jan push the only part of the game she has conviction? Why does ender vote Lissa over Jan/Visor/Maple? Why does Jan send a gun to Ender during the day?

Because they are wolves.

re: ender vote, imo me and jan were the "real wagons" at that point

iirc ender was wolfreading me and jan at the time

in the ender world (well in that the gun prob went to cape not ender iyam but sorta semantics tbh)

it is a bit hard to parse why ender votes me in that world instead of just voting jan given the presumably known of at least in idea of claiming the thing



i honestly kinda just think this line is another layer of you hail marying as a wolf but

[ladd]

I do think eod 2 i sthe key which is why i hope yall can check visor reaction to jan claim cause its the most outing part of his play

He is not looking at jan claim in a critical way, he is not trying to figure out if its wolfy or not

He just says "well if we are not killing jan" like its something agreed upon

Like i said everytime he pushes jan his heart is not into it

[Lissa]

gonna wait for ladd to chime in on that

can i at least have an acknowledgement that im kinda villagery for trying to figure this out lissa? a lil cookie plz

i mean it is an angle that makes sense for you to consider as a villa prob, given you think ladd v strongly

just

also like yeah ender/jan/x team has plenty of motivation to try to use jans clearly coming death to try to set ender up well even tho i dont really think it was /optimal/ to do so

also if i was on his wolfteam i would have for sure pushed him super hard to holster but thats a funny and not particularly useful level for a lot of reasons (but it is true) (but he wouldn't have to listen) (but anyway)

[ladd]

I am ngl i def would have pushed for some fun gambit even if it loses some win % lmao

[Sunbae]

lissa, there have been multiple times today you have responded with some form of "this line makes sense for you take as a villager" to my posts and i am begging you to take a step back and realize (or at least openly explore!) thats because im a villager instead of an omega mega mind wolf who happens to know the exact right lines villager me would be thinking of

[Lissa]

I do think eod 2 i sthe key which is why i hope yall can check visor reaction to jan claim cause its the most outing part of his play

He is not looking at jan claim in a critical way, he is not trying to figure out if its wolfy or not

He just says "well if we are not killing jan" like its something agreed upon

Like i said everytime he pushes jan his heart is not into it

i mean i am about to look at it again atm i've been going over his posts again but i kinda had a similar thought myself in the moment that it was mechanically optimal to let that action happen

like if you are v i guess this is the fundamental disconnect in our reads on visor and really what it comes down to right like

idk i just felt like we were very much on the same wavelength at that eod

also the thread in general we were very much talking about an alternative to jan for the day

the if we dont kill jan made actually perfectly fine sense in context? i don't understand this line

i thought the claim timing was pretty wolfy but idt i ever vocalized that and i still moved off jan cause it felt in the moment mechanically correct/optimal

[ladd]

i mean it is an angle that makes sense for you to consider as a villa prob, given you think ladd v strongly

Why do you think i am a wolf tho? Why do you think visor is a villager? Why cant visor and sunbae both be wolves?

I think bar you i am the most easily findable villager this game tbh just based in d1/d2 (and even d3)

[Lissa]

lissa, there have been multiple times today you have responded with some form of "this line makes sense for you take as a villager" to my posts and i am begging you to take a step back and realize (or at least openly explore!) thats because im a villager instead of an omega mega mind wolf who happens to know the exact right lines villager me would be thinking of

well it's not really some omega mega mind thing it's a simple fact of like the ways the game can be structured? if you are confident in ladd v it has to be two of me, visor, ender, so exploring me/ender makes sense from that pov

it's not like it's some super specific exact lines you'd take as a villa it's straightforward lylo stuff

i /am/ considering worlds where you are a villager arguably more than i feel like i should, i am straight up openly giving weight to that possibility MORE than i feel in my head like i should lol

[ladd]

idk i just felt like we were very much on the same wavelength at that eod

And it ended in a waza mislunch. Makes you think

(This seems snarky but i really mean that it makes you think)

[EnderWiggin]

Ngl I knew I probably wasn't gonna die after Maple flipped town but I was hoping.

[Lissa]

Why do you think i am a wolf tho? Why do you think visor is a villager? Why cant visor and sunbae both be wolves?

I think bar you i am the most easily findable villager this game tbh just based in d1/d2 (and even d3)

i'm not sure i even do. i need to reread you. i'm in the process of rereading visor's posts, right now. i think you took that sentence differently than i intended, i was literally just meaning that as a mechanical fact, if he is villa and confident you are there's 2/3 in me ender visor.

i don't think there's anything that says visor and sunbae can't both be wolves, as a combination. i have absolutely no thought along those lines and i'm frankly confused at why you think i do. i have a strong individual village read on visor - which i am in the process of trying to make sure i think is actually correct

[EnderWiggin]

I did like 0 work rereading. I don't have a good reason except that I saw Maple's flip and closed the tab lol.

But I'm alive and it's F5 so it's time for me to drag myself through thread and work out where my brain has got to.

[Lissa]

And it ended in a waza mislunch. Makes you think

(This seems snarky but i really mean that it makes you think)

i mean i do indeed acknowledge that but the point i was making that was what you're describing him as saying/doing w/r/t jans claim and etc, so was i just in a different way? and i know i'm a villager? who was having that pov? so i don't see how it would be /outing/

[Sunbae]

Let me ask both of you then:

What path can I take to be viewed as a villager? You have both spent days in this game thinking I was posting villagery - you both defended me on day 2 and day 3! - and we have found ourselves in a final 5 where I am being told that really there's nothing I can do for you to find me even if we get a wolf today.

This results in me being in a position where I either find ways for you to find me or I have to just hope ya'll are wolves together. And I don't really think that's the case but I'm not sure how else to approach this day. I feel like I'm by far the villageriest person in the thread today.

[ladd]

i'm not sure i even do. i need to reread you. i'm in the process of rereading visor's posts, right now. i think you took that sentence differently than i intended, i was literally just meaning that as a mechanical fact, if he is villa and confident you are there's 2/3 in me ender visor.

i don't think there's anything that says visor and sunbae can't both be wolves, as a combination. i have absolutely no thought along those lines and i'm frankly confused at why you think i do. i have a strong individual village read on visor - which i am in the process of trying to make sure i think is actually correct

Alrighty, you seemed to think it was me/sunbae.