Too Many Provinces!

[Asaji Shimazu]

So what do all of you think regarding the number of provinces? In order to conquer the world you have to take over 100 provinces The sheer number of battles this takes is immense, between attacks, defenses and barbarians, you're looking at about 300 battles. At about 20 minutes a battle that's roughly 100 hours of gameplay to finish the campaign.

I skipped the battles about 90% of the time, but had to suffer much bigger losses because of it.

Did anyone actually fight all the battles and still conquer the world?

[Ryttare]

Have never finsihed a campaign... But one thing is for sure. U do not have to fight a single battle if the Strategic Agents are used correctly.

[Rosacrux]

They should be more, many more. Twice they are right now. At least

[Basileus]

Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Feb. 25 2003,07:53)]They should be more, many more. Twice they are right now. At least

Not twice but a few more would be nice hehe

[Lord Of Storms]

I completed one campaign as the Egyptians it was long yes and when you control many provinces it is tedious but thats the nature of the game...hits space bar to skip tour...

[Praylak]

Yes, I'm one of those too. You can never have too much of one thing. I say, lets have more provinces, more battles, more units. The bigger the better, etc, etc. Make my computer bleed, bring it on.

I've never seen the date 1453 in any campaign, and I've played this game so much, I dream of it in my sleep.

[Kristaps]

Hehehe, yeah, twice as many provinces sound about right to me ) and an AI that's much better educated in the sciences of finance and economy... (otherwise the poverty stricken AI factions constantly try to beat me with huge armies of peasants...)

On another note: the way I play the game (build up first, then attack) I don't have to fight that many battles at all... The AI factions just get too scared of my professional armies. To my great dissatisfaction the only time the AI fights is when there is no retreat (islands, provinces that are surrounded by other factions, etc.).

I guess, I'll just keep Livonia on max taxes with the low level fort and no towers... Keep's my blood-lust in check... ))

On another note, if playing a muslim faction (Almohads in particular), Portugale becomes a real pushover rebel province... Take it, set taxes on max, keep the minimum garnizon (100 peasants), the lowest level fort, and no towers: a nice peasant + murabitin infantry (saracen infantry and nubian guards join them on a rare occasion) rebellion guaranteed every other year or so... Enjoy the genocide )

[econ21]

I think the strategic game would lose much of my interest if it had a smaller province map. Given the way the game plays, the number of provinces is about right for me but then I don't try to take over the world but go for GAs. I like the way you are free to choose bigger (HRE, Byzantine) or smaller factions (Danes, Poles) depending on how much complexity you want to manage. I find a HRE scale homeland the most interesting, but often play England for a more pacific game (I agree endless battles can be exhausting).

I would not mind more provinces, but that would have to be offset by more constraints on growth - primarily economic - which meant that it would be very hard to, say, exceed the size of the Roman Empire. I am quite looking forward to the VI add-on in that the strategy map may be a little more dense in its representation of a given area and the resulting strategic action more "realistic".

[ichi]

Asaji: I began with Shogun and still love it. One of the features of MTW that I prefer over STW is the larger map with more provinces.

ichi

[USMCNJ]

double the number And make the AI accept peace offers. Most of the time on GA, but i always end up conquering the entire europe in the late era. I first build up, and then some idiot attacks me. So i surround thier troops by my supperior troops and force them to fight a 10,000 + battle. Even then they want accept peace. So i have to continue on fighting till the faction is a province strog.(at witch point the faction will never be a problem again.)

If there were more provinces then this would take longer.

To prove my piont the first war you fight doesn't take more then 10 years. IF you start of building a mid size army you will crush your neigbor cause he didn't expect. And after the first blow the faction doesn't recover cause it doesn't have enough resources. If each faction started of with say 20 provinces, then the enemy could comeback and even beat you. Plus the wars will last more then 10 years.

[Asaji Shimazu]

I played and won the full campaign as the spanish, french, and germans, and I have to say - by the end of conquering the world it just became a chore. I agree that better diplomacy would make it MUCH better.

However I liked the smaller stw map. Much easier to play in different ways over and over again.

Asaji

[ToranagaSama]

The Strategy Map simply requires a bit of, well, strategy. No need to fight so many battles, I'd say 20 battles or so can get you 3/4 of the provinces.

For example, recently I took 6 provinces in 2 turns, with no battles.

I'd like to see a map twice as big, but I'd also like to see a "Vassalization" feature as well. It's a bit boring and useless having to finish off a faction that really is done. It's be more fun, and probably realistic to add an option to Offer or Compel a faction to submit to your Superiority and have you as its Liege(sp?) Lord.

It'd also be cool if there were a way to Order your Vassal to assist you in an attack upon a third faction.

Of course the AI should have the same capabilities, and this would lead to some cool SP battles; the Player and his Vassal(s) vs the AI and his Vassal(s).

Vassals s/b like the Scotts or Portugese, VERY difficult to maintain their Loyalty to you. Lose a battle or two and watch your Vassal turn on you or strive for independence. Imagine the Strat Map intrigue and backstabbing. Imagine going into battle and having your Vassal turn and attack you

Yeah, many more provinces, with the Early Period starting with lots of small factions, with the better factions evolving into large "regional" powers. At such a point in the game, Strategy and Diplomacy should become more important to victory than brute force and battle skills.

Alliances should also play a greater role in the game in terms of achieving and maintaing a balance of power between factions (especially large regional powers). This aspect is historically central to European affairs. Though, perhaps a couple hundred years beyond the game's time period.

You know, I look forward to Rome and all it brings, but, personally, I don't feel Medieval is finished yet. Lots of features and improvements can be made to really, really improve the game, IMHO.

[bakdal]

I totally and fully agree with ToranagaSama. But I'd like to add, that with significantly more provinces, with more minor and/or unplayable factions, more options on the strategic map is needed. ToranagaSama mentions the splendid idea of vasals, which is both nice and neat. But it requires more, I think. It requires more diplomatic options, a better trade (or general economy) system, and perhaps introduction of more strategic parametres.

If that could be implemented, I too would prefer doubling the number og provinces. If not, if the developers only adjust the current balance with bits here and there, more provinces would only cause more chaos (which also is fun, but not in this sense, if you know what I mean )

Bakdal

[Brutal DLX]

Well, I spent more time on the strategy map than in all battles combined. And yes, you aquire a lot of provinces without a fight.
However, I'm not sure whether more provinces would be better. I reckon it would be quite impossible to conquer the whole world starting in Late Era then. But since I am more of a GA player, I think it would work there.

I agree that diplomacy has to be upgraded to bring the game to another level, but the battle aspect shouldn't be forgotten. It should still be possible to rule by sword rather than by soft words, because it is a Medieval sim where cruelty and warfare was commonplace. The alliances should really be expanded, as others pointed out. It should be possible to get permission to cross your allies' territories on a case-by-case approach, and you should be able to lay attack and defense plans together with your allies. Of course, for that to work we would have to say goodbye to Total domination mode, since it will be hard to find allies if each faction is trying to conquer the world and everybody knows that...

[Orda Khan]

I don't mind the time and I actually enjoy all those battles though with VI we can save between battles
Yes it is possible to take many provinces without a fight but it is also nice to take a province from a much stronger army too. I am at 1426 at present, I have fought every battle and I have thoroughly enjoyed it. Until now Now it seems, I am getting revolts everywhere. This is what I call frustrating. When you are the richest with the largest armies and your people have never had it so good and you end up with a revolt in a dozen provinces all at once from nowhere
I mean 'Come on' all I want is Morrocco and Italy and it's done.

.......Orda

[A.Saturnus]

There should be many more provinces. Let`s say no province bigger than Antioch for example. And it should be much more difficult to get a really huge empire. Also a huge empire should struggle more from internal problems like administration problems and corruption. This would require more minor factions, a lot more diplomacy and economics. It should be very hard to impossible to conquer the whole map in the given time.

[el_slapper]

IMHO, there should be various campaign scale available. Like a small campaign focusing on France & UK(100 years war), another for central Europe, another in the middle East... It would be easy(simply disabling other provinces), and would add interest for those with less gametime(I've finished campaigns, but only thanks to autocalc every non-vital battle).

Of course, the grand campaign would remain playable as it is now. But for MANY players, it's simply too big. For some, it's too small. So

[Asaji Shimazu]

Your last post is right on the money, slapper.

[andy119]

Just aboyt right provinces if u ak me shogun was too short a game on mi i won thw whole campaign in 2 hours playing every battle