Help with the French

[Heraclius]

I'm trying to play a campaign with the French, early/expert. I've found myself crushed between HRE and English, with no economy and poor troops. i must be doiong something wrong, Although I find myself wondering that maybe the game is designed so the french cannot win. After all look at what they've done in the wars they've gotten themselves into. Favorite French soldier quote: "Which end does zee bullet come out of, mon Captaine?" Now, I don't want to start a flame war with any of the French members out there but if anyone could give me some hints and tips for kicking butt with the French I could really use it.

[Exile]

In the beginning, build up your garrisons. This is most important because it will discourage your neighbors from attacking you and if they do you have a chance of winning. Once your garrisons are adequate to face the threat of invasion, shift to improving your economy and getting the best quality troops you can - the 'Fuedal' troops. After these are in place, then get your agents, etc. Flanders is an exception (i think you have it in early) since it's economy is so good, start right away with farming and trading post, but be sure to protect it from your neighbors with your best troops.

Your biggest challenge during this process will be running out of money - so don't build anything that is not necessary until you have more discretionary florins. Hopefully the Pope will throw a little bling your way.

Pick your wars wisely. I usually attack someone who is already at war/unpopoular with the other factions. If they're fighting on more than one front they are at a disadvantage, plus you won't risk your alliances.

[Bhruic]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Exile here. I find the key to the French is eliminating the English from the mainland asap. It's actually quite easily done, the English can't easily reinforce from their island. The Germans usually don't attack early on, so you've got some time to work with. Once you accomplish this, you've got some "backfield" provinces that you can leave lightly garrisoned, and it's these that will make you money. Having rich provices is useless if you have to have large amounts of troops there to defend them.

After the English are dealt with, it's hard to say where to go next without knowing what else has happened. If the Germans are at war with anyone else (notably the Italians), they might get excommunicated, which would be a good time to go after them. Otherwise, looking towards the Spanish is a good idea, grabbing the 4 iron provinces can be a huge advantage for unit production.

As a side note, I find that in every game I play where I'm nowhere near the French (ie, no influence on that side of the map), the French almost always win the power struggle in that area. So they certainly aren't in a "can't win" situation.

Bh

[Brutal DLX]

I agree with Bhruic,

Try to build a small but well balanced army, but make sure you still make surplus money after it is in place. Then take a risk and build your provinces. Try to ally either with the English or the Germans, and do it quick, before they ally with each other, then you most probably will have a hard time gaining support. I suggest leaving alone the Germans and look for any opening the English might present you.
If you don't see one, continue to build and wait for the English to make the first move. Usually you should get some good generals, which are the key to victory. Be ready for a series of few, but extremely important fights whose outcome dictates whether you will prevail or perish. Drive the English out of France, then you can decide whether you want to eliminate them completely and start a Northern expansion to Britain and Scandinavia, or take some German provinces or backstab the Spanish while they fight the Almohads. If you want to act more peacefully and try to get some reputation, start crusading for the Holy Land. Chances are you will get support from other Catholic factions and the inner-European wars will stop for a while, enabling you to further develop your provinces. After any of those steps, you should be in a very good position for the rest of the game.

[Jabberwock]

Hi Heraclius, The French lands can produce huge amounts of farming income with relatively minor (20-40%) improvement and a decent acumen governor. Should be sufficient to supply a sizeable army. Even better if you can deprive the English of the west of France early on (they'll not be able to get back at you until they have a fleet). Sit back and watch the money pour in.

BTW, Brutal DLX, Speedball 2 fan? IMO, one of the greatest and most playable games ever...

[Brutal DLX]

Quote[/b] (Jabberwock @ Feb. 21 2003,12:02)]BTW, Brutal DLX, Speedball 2 fan? IMO, one of the greatest and most playable games ever...

Yep. I think I'm still quite adept at it. Shame they didn't think about internet MP back then...

[Heraclius]

thanks I''l try both strategies and see which works better.

[econ21]

Heraclius - I'm with Bhruic too - the most effective strategy is to expell the English, although once you do that the game arguably becomes too easy. I wrote a post detailing how to reunite France on early that is listed in the TOC under "France". Since then, I confess I've found France a little dull compared to England or HRE, but some of their glory goals do sound challenging (Krac de Chevaliers especially) so I may come back to them.

[Devastatin Dave]

As the French be sure to make some oil deals with Iraq, block any resolution that threatens those deals, and threaten any "new" European country before they enter the EU with hissy fits from your king

Seriously, hold Flanders at all cost and secure your southern borders. The Germans are being attacked from the East so allie with them and concentrate your defences in the North and South. The economy is good so money will not be a problem.

[LordKhaine]

Never played as France... but the French AI almost always ends up being the strongest mainland european faction. So they clearly have a lot going for them.

[Alrowan]

hmm.. my only french campagin i played, i completely obliterated everyone...

[Red Harvest]

Quote[/b] (daveinkorea @ Feb. 21 2003,12:51)]As the French be sure to make some oil deals with Iraq, block any resolution that threatens those deals, and threaten any "new" European country before they enter the EU with hissy fits from your king

LOL,

Your forgot about the "build the Iraqi's a nuclear reactor mod." Rest of Europe doesn't know it yet but France actually runs the EU...

Seriously, agree about getting Flander's economic upgrades early. You can power a small kingdom off of Flander's income alone. Agree also that you should wipe out the English on the continent early. Doing so produces protected non-border provinces with minimal garrisons so that you can concentrate forces along the frontier.

[Heraclius]

started over again, took all your advice into account. However I think that Bhruic and Brutal were definitely on the right track. Exile, has a point though: conserve florins. I did not the first time around and that was the reason for my shaky economy. It is 1109 and I have reunited France, except for Toulouse, stolen by the Aragonese while it was lightly garrisoned. I am now under threat of excommunication because of a small loyalist revolt that happened in Toulouse the following year. Damn the Pope Economy going strong, garrisons strong on border with HRE. Planning invasion of England as soon as I finish building improvements and swordsmith workshops, armourers etc. I am also keeping my eyes peeled for any sign of German weakness or excommunication. In seven years or so Toulouse will also be mine Further advice would be helpful if anyone wants to give me some.

[Panther]

Quote[/b] (Red Harvest @ Feb. 22 2003,03:16)]

Quote[/b] (daveinkorea @ Feb. 21 2003,12:51)]As the French be sure to make some oil deals with Iraq, block any resolution that threatens those deals, and threaten any "new" European country before they enter the EU with hissy fits from your king

LOL,

Your forgot about the "build the Iraqi's a nuclear reactor mod." Rest of Europe doesn't know it yet but France actually runs the EU...

Seriously, agree about getting Flander's economic upgrades early. You can power a small kingdom off of Flander's income alone. Agree also that you should wipe out the English on the continent early. Doing so produces protected non-border provinces with minimal garrisons so that you can concentrate forces along the frontier.

You also forgot giving iraq satalite pictures of Kuwait

[Dark Angel]

And getting your spies and assissins to sink enemy shipping that threatens your "Peaceful image" and the rest of the b******* you give out to the rest of the world, eg Rainbow Warrior

[powdermonkey]

As a good strategy, ALWAYS take out your nearest neighbour first
The game stays true to history tho, with the best move early for the French being to expell the English from their lands, and vice-versa

[el_slapper]

mmmh, I won't comment those racist jokes.

Back to topic : France is in a position where everything is done the 15-20 first years. Either you've managed to acquire some space, and then you'll be powerful, or you're doomed. Attack quick, English first, then Germans. As the game is designed, there is no way to win while being a pacifist frog.

[Satyr]

After gaining control of all french provinces, I like to take out the spanish next. They have awesome money producing provinces while the german territories suck for making florins. And build your farms in all of france to 60-80 percent asap. This will provide you a solid base to continue your expansion efforts with. If you take spain, build full farms there too. At that point, I would start working on getting some trading going.

[Portuguese Rebel]

You guys can't stop bashing the poor frenchmen can ya?

Playing with france you have to wipe out the english early. If you can erradicate them or leave them in a toke little corner. Having your back safe is good then work on the rest of them (you probably will get nailed by the pope and the HRE will start thinking about cruzades, be prepared)

[Heraclius]

I did it people Won with the French for the first time. 60% victory but still I was getting a little bored. I can honestly say I couldnn't have done it without your helpful advice. Bam I took out the English, invaded their crummy isle, turned my eyes on Spain and the Almos, then Germany, etc,etc. Thanks

[Brutal DLX]

Way to go
Time to lean back, open a nice bottle of red wine and maybe have a Brie, or two

[Heraclius]

mmmmmm-mmmmm can't wait.

[Asmodeus]

After reading this thread I thought I'd have a go at a French GA campaign, playing Early, Normal (too scared to play on harder&#33.

Well from the word go it has been tense and bloody - but thoroughly gripping.

As has been mentioned earlier, in the beginning you really have no choice but to fight and unite the French provinces - being split in half - indeed in thirds, leaves you unacceptably vulnerable.

I decided to kick off the innevitable war with England and sent a Princess to try to secure an alliance with the Holy Roman Empire. The HRE wouldnt have any of it so instead I sent my disgruntled princess to seek allies with Italy - in the hope this would make the Germans pause for thought - for they were forming quite a large army on my border. Italy fortunately took the offer and I launched my attack on the wary English. Normandy fell without losses and next my army planned to thrust into Anjou. Sadly my inadequate garrison in Normandy could not keep the peace and a loyalist rebellion erupted of some 700 troops including decent cavalry of which at this early stage I had none. My troops fled to Isle de France where an even bigger German army was massing over the border.

At this point I had that horrible sinking feeling of 'Oh my god what a mistake to make'. Anyway no point dwelling on it, it's all or nothing now. I ordered armies to be trained everywhere possible and sent a medium sized army to attack Anjou - I dared not leave Isle de France too vulnerable. This proved to be an eventful year.

First the English caught me off guard and invaded Brittany from Anjou That was a very brutal battle with heavy losses on each side, his hobilar cavalry very nearly routed my whole army, but I managed to rally two units just in time and pincered him in a desperate counter attack. His general was killed in that attack and his superior army fled the field. Next I attacked Anjou, secretly glad that he had diverted his forces in his attack. However once again his hobilars caused me major problems (I had mainly Urban militia, spearmen and a few archers led by the King of France). My army was forced to retreat into a small forest and he followed me in to his death. A costly battle but a great accomplishment. But then to my amazement, Germany invaded Toulouse, not Isle de France. I had very little to defend it with as it was so cut off. But the Germans foolishly sent only a fraction of their army, roughly equal odds except i had only a level 0 general which is usually a huge handicap. Once again an appalling blood bath, so desperate that Archers and peasants were all I had left to throw into melee. Once again I was lucky, some German spearmen routed and the rest bolted in panic - pursued all the way to the border by blood thirsty vengeful peasants.

Fortunately the newly captured Anjou had a host of mercenary cavalry available which enabled me to invade and secure the whole south of France to the Pyranees and disuade the Germans from attacking in the East. Only Normandy with it's large Loyalist army remain defiant. But finally the English King invaded across the channel from Wessex and in a grand showdown on the flat plains of Flanders, he was killed in battle throwing his country into anarchy.

Now I just have the HRE to keep an eye on and a plenty of rebel provinces to pick off Vive Le France

Unusually, the Pope has not intervened once?

[LRossaRikimaru]

Hi m8s,

i think that in the beginning you must improve your agricolture input, only in this manner you can get the florins to kick ass With your initial florins go to 20%-40% improvement and set tax as very high in the province with more army (the loyal must be 100%). When you declare war, strike focused, watch when an enemy is in difficult and attack. Don't worry of consequence, if you don't attack surely they will attack you soon, there's not diplomacy in this game (is useless) only total war

bye mate
LRossaRIkimaru , Doge del Canavese , Principe di Carcano