Results 1 to 21 of 21

Thread: Comparisons between STW and MTW

  1. #1
    Member Member Goatus Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    89

    Default

    I've thoroughly enjoyed MTW and am considering buying STW. I am curious to hear from players of both MTW and STW as to the pros/cons of STW compared to MTW.

    My biggest concern is playability...will I enjoy playing STW after having played the newer, ostensibly more playable MTW?

    I am mainly interested in the SP campaign aspect...

    Any advice is appreciated

  2. #2
    Member Member pdoan8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    San Francisco, CA, USA
    Posts
    751

    Default

    With the VI being release in less than 2 weeks, I am not sure if STW can keep you interested for long unless you plan not to buy VI.

    IMO, STW (MI/WE) will be very enjoyable even after you've been playing MTW for a long time.

    - Tactical battle in STW is much more intense and challenging than in MTW.
    - Fewer unit makes the gap between each unit level smaller.
    - AI is a little better in tactical combat.
    - Trategy part is simplier, the map is smaller means you could have a lot more battle in the same amount of time you spend for MTW.
    - Geisha: ultimate assasin.
    - Kensai: the bigger than life sword saint who can eradicate a whole unit of regular swordmen single handed ... make that two hands.
    - In-game movies.
    - Endgame movies.

    Well, I don't know why I just like STW more than MTW.




  3. #3
    Member Member starkhorn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    The Village
    Posts
    181

    Default

    If your going for STW and have never bought anything for it then I suggest getting the Warlord edition. This contains the original STW plus the Mongol Invasion add-on.

    The warlord edition gives more features like having different starting time periods for the SP campaign with quite varying starting positions for each faction. The Mongol campaign is quite good as it introduces lots of new mongol units. The warlord edition also gives more Japanese units as well that were not in the original version, kenshai, battefield ninja, etc

    The historically battles and campaigns are all really challenging as well.

    I agree with all of pdoan's points.

    Although I would say that seiges aren't as good as MTW as there are no seige weapons at all in the game.

    Cheers
    Starkhorn
    Let your manhood be seen by the push of your pike:- Owen Roe O'Neill at the Battle of Benburb 1646

  4. #4

    Arrow

    Also, you might notice that the campaign map is looking a bit simpler and lackluster, at first glance. I never noticed this before MTW came out, but after I played MTW a lot and installed Shogun again for a little campaign, it was really obvious. But I also don't want to forget mentioning the nice ambient music.
    As for the rest, there are less facilities that can be built, and less units, and there are seasonal turns, rather than annual ones as in MTW, although you get income just once a year.
    The battle system is the same, so overall, go buy it if you're interested in that epoch and culture. (And I agree, go buy the Warlord Edition, it's the complete thing )
    Ignoranti, quem portum petat, nullus suus ventus est. -Seneca, Epistulae Morales, VIII, 71, 3

  5. #5
    Member Member Daevyll's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    277

    Default

    Personally I find STW much less enjoyable than MTW.

    The AI isnt any better from what I have experienced, quite the opposite. From a strategic viewpoint there is simply much less to do, and alliances are even more worthless than in MTW (ie the AI breaks them even faster).
    Also I find the subject matter for MTW much more interesting but that is of course highly subjective.

    MTW is an improvement in every sense except for the little movies when a ninja/geisha goes to work.

  6. #6
    Member Member Sir Black Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Portugal madeira island
    Posts
    174

    Cool

    Well before MTW appeared STW was the only game that allowed us the fans of massive battles to use large amount of armies in the field in a way that we never had before . Plus when u join the asian culture and the role of the Samurai and start reading all about there is to read on Japan then u become a fan of STW. The Sengoku Jidai period was the bloodiest of all in Japan. In those days several ruthless Daimyos rise in the conquest for the title of Shogun....Plus altough the maps are smaller the upgrades of the facilities take lesser time and there aren't so many type of armies and soldiers like in MTW. Tough that limit the choice u need to know better their strenght when it cames to best use them.Altough the archers and the musquets in STW plays a decisive role in the battlefield. they r deadly. Then u have the throne room a pearl of wisdom, the ninja and gheisha movies ... well do i need to say more?


    Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

    IT'S TIME THEY LESSON US: WE WANT A MP CAMPAIGN FOR ROME TOTAL WAR

  7. #7
    For TosaInu and the Org Senior Member The_Emperor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    The United Kingdom of Great Britain
    Posts
    4,354

    Default

    Go on, buy all the total war games... You know you want to

    "Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it."

  8. #8
    Provost Senior Member Nelson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 1999
    Location
    Maryland, USA
    Posts
    2,762

    Default

    I would get Shogun if you want to see the Total War engine in 16th century Japan. Strategy is simpler but still challenging and vast samurai armies are impressive looking.
    Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.

  9. #9
    Member Member Goatus Maximus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    89

    Default

    Thanks for the input...I'll check it out

  10. #10
    Member Member Michael the Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Wallachia
    Posts
    533

    Exclamation

    Hey,BTW I only had Shogun and not MI,I think I'm gonna buy it,coz I liked Shoggy more than MTW
    Io,Mihai-Voda,din mila lui Dumnezeu,domn al Tarii Romanesti,Tarii Ardealului si a toata tara Moldovei.

  11. #11

    Default

    well... seeing as how shogun is the only TW game i play (for now ) i figured i might drop in i think it was KenchiTerazawa who once stated that MTW was alot of fun, but if you want to get past the newbies and play hardcore, shogun is the place to be. in shogun (multiplayer) there isn't long journeys to find and attack your enemy. you start and boom, 50 feet and your in attack. some of you may call this 'simple' tactics yet it is very challenging using your ranged units effectively, guiding your h2h units to battle in tact, and keeping your general alive, in a very close quarters. some of you may say that all it is is head to head fighting and no strategy, there are miles of strategy. each player has his own way of strategy and it is very interesting because mainly... there aren't all these different units. the winner is ALWAYS the better tactition, not the stronger army.
    Because only if you've been in the deepest valley can you ever know how magnificent it is to be on the highest mountain. -Richard M. Nixon

    AggonyShim2
    *moons all*

  12. #12

    Default

    How could you not buy Shogun WE - MI? You have to love those in-game movies where your ninja kills the priest I always used to laugh when the samurai spearman marches by only to see the lantern (with a ninja hidden inside) get up and start creeping after him. Next scene the spearman is impaled on his own spear

    Or that great scene with the Geisha "entertaining" a group of generals by playing the lute, next you hear their grunts and screams and see her demurely exit the room and close the door, then cut to them hanging by the lute strings, etc. I always wondered how she did that so quickly.

    Great stuff and provided real atmosphere. Too bad they didn't do that for MTW.

    Also the cool movie where after your Daimyo is killed your new daimyo receives the oath of loyalty from the clan.
    Yours was not at first a criminal nature. At 10 you stole sugar,at 15 you stole money,at 25 you committed arson. At 30,hardened in crime,you became an editor. Worse yet is in store for you. You will be sent to Congress,then to the penitentiary. But,all will be well. You will be hanged.
    -Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Member Member Sir Black Raven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Portugal madeira island
    Posts
    174

    Thumbs up

    Yes Cugel those movies are awsome indeed. That was one of the reasons that i kept playing WE. Also there are a one mod created where Yamagawa Clan starts with a gueisha. If you dont neutralise him first u find your daimyo assassinated in a few years. Pretty though that mod.


    Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

    IT'S TIME THEY LESSON US: WE WANT A MP CAMPAIGN FOR ROME TOTAL WAR

  14. #14
    Member Member Tera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Kenchikuka Library
    Posts
    349

    Talking

    Shimmy is right about that STW/MI are both 'smaller' in scale than MTW. Shogun stretches for just 100 years unlike the 400 years of MTW. But remember that while MTW works with a year per turn, Shogun works with a season per turn (spring/summer/autumn/winter)...so the STW campaign isn't short, but the map is much smaller.

    The strategy map mode is much less complex than MTW...it is quite straightforward. While MTW has 100+ units, STW has only 20 in all. This doesn't mean that the battle mode is simpler...it's the contrary...the units involved might be less of a burden to discover...but STW's tactics are deeper - good engagement, flanking and so on are extremely important.

    Estimates by veterans say that MTW has 50% less
    need of skill than the original STW. It's right - Shogun was originally aimed for the hardcore wargamers rather than for the masses. Quite says it all.

    Reasons to buy Shogun: Total War - The Warlord Edition (make sure you buy this so that you have the original STW + Mongol Invasion x-pack):

    - mate, it IS Total War anyway :-)
    - extremely interesting culture + time
    - deep tactics in battle mode
    - Playing on 'expert' level with difficult clans like Shimazu or Imagawa is still very very enjoyable for the very best...you will find a challenge for sure.
    - STW will run extremely fast on most PCs today.
    - you will discover the roots of Total War and perhaps understand MTW better
    - THRONE ROOM (something unfortunately missing in MTW)
    - EVENT VIDEOS (awesome vidoes that show you assasinations, deaths etc, also missing in MTW)
    - Soundtrack and music is just amazing. It won several well-deserved awards for its music.

    In short you will have fun with this must game.





    The Order of Kenchikuka

  15. #15
    Member Member Michael the Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Wallachia
    Posts
    533

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Tera @ May 01 2003,11:00)]Shimmy is right about that STW/MI are both 'smaller' in scale than MTW. Shogun stretches for just 100 years unlike the 400 years of MTW. But remember that while MTW works with a year per turn, Shogun works with a season per turn (spring/summer/autumn/winter)...so the STW campaign isn't short, but the map is much smaller.

    The strategy map mode is much less complex than MTW...it is quite straightforward. While MTW has 100+ units, STW has only 20 in all. This doesn't mean that the battle mode is simpler...it's the contrary...the units involved might be less of a burden to discover...but STW's tactics are deeper - good engagement, flanking and so on are extremely important.

    Estimates by veterans say that MTW has 50% less
    need of skill than the original STW. It's right - Shogun was originally aimed for the hardcore wargamers rather than for the masses. Quite says it all.

    Reasons to buy Shogun: Total War - The Warlord Edition (make sure you buy this so that you have the original STW + Mongol Invasion x-pack):

    - mate, it IS Total War anyway :-)
    - extremely interesting culture + time
    - deep tactics in battle mode
    - Playing on 'expert' level with difficult clans like Shimazu or Imagawa is still very very enjoyable for the very best...you will find a challenge for sure.
    - STW will run extremely fast on most PCs today.
    - you will discover the roots of Total War and perhaps understand MTW better
    - THRONE ROOM (something unfortunately missing in MTW)
    - EVENT VIDEOS (awesome vidoes that show you assasinations, deaths etc, also missing in MTW)
    - Soundtrack and music is just amazing. It won several well-deserved awards for its music.

    In short you will have fun with this must game.
    Allright Tera,a few questions though....

    *Wich campaign is more challenging the Mongols Invasion or the normal ones?
    *Does it have 'eras' like MTW's 'early' 'high' and 'late'?
    *Is there any visible improvement in graphics?
    And:
    *Do mongols wear flags at their backs?
    Io,Mihai-Voda,din mila lui Dumnezeu,domn al Tarii Romanesti,Tarii Ardealului si a toata tara Moldovei.

  16. #16
    Member Member Tera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Kenchikuka Library
    Posts
    349

    Default

    1. Personally I found the MI campaign to be somewhat lame. First of all anyone who buys it must download the 1.02 patch immediately. The 1.02 patch causes trouble with the historical campaigns but its extremely valuable for the SP full campaign. I prefer the Japanese campaign...longer, you can build buildings, train units and so on. The Mongols do nothing but invade, and fight. And it's quite easy. Playing Oda/Shimazu/Imagawa in the Japanese campaign is much more challenging.

    2. No it doesn't have eras.

    3. The graphics are worse than in MTW. But it's a fast game on today's machine, unlike MTW, which lags on even the fastest machines when playing big team games in highly textured maps, especially coastal ones.

    4. Lol, I don't remember, but I guess not.

    Tera


    The Order of Kenchikuka

  17. #17

    Default

    Weighing in on the differences I see in MTW and STW.

    I'm glad the Geisha is gone.

    I'm glad the Kensai is gone.

    I'm glad naval matters are more than merely ports.

    I'm glad that generals are more than just the number of stars.

    I'm glad to see Princesses, and all that they bring to the game in terms of bloodlines, diplomacy, and spying.

    I'm glad the AI won't subject itself to repeated massacres in a bridge province they simply cannot hope to take.

    I'm glad diplomacy isn't as easy.

    I'm glad that heavy cavalry can't charge infantry with impunity.

    I'm glad that there are units specific to given factions. I just wish I could tell which ones without memorizing the tech tree.

    I'm glad that there are siege weapons, even though I personally just starve the forts out more often than assault them.

    The one thing about STW that still recommends it is playing the Mongols, since their whole strategy has to be different from any other faction in either game.

    Other than that, MTW is more to my liking.

  18. #18
    Member Member Michael the Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Wallachia
    Posts
    533

    Default

    Less units DOESN'T mean less strategy.
    MTW has too many unit types,that when are combined in to an armym it's too annoying and hard(not 4 me though) to make them a good fighting force,with all the 'good attack'
    'weak defence' 'AP' etc.
    This detracts from teh FUN factor wich I treasure most,and was more in STW(and in MI hopefully ) than in MTW.
    Io,Mihai-Voda,din mila lui Dumnezeu,domn al Tarii Romanesti,Tarii Ardealului si a toata tara Moldovei.

  19. #19
    Member Member Michael the Great's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Wallachia
    Posts
    533

    Default

    Hehe,btw,there is a japanese chess game called shogi
    Io,Mihai-Voda,din mila lui Dumnezeu,domn al Tarii Romanesti,Tarii Ardealului si a toata tara Moldovei.

  20. #20

    Default

    "Allright Tera,a few questions though....

    *Wich campaign is more challenging the Mongols Invasion or the normal ones?
    *Does it have 'eras' like MTW's 'early' 'high' and 'late'?
    *Is there any visible improvement in graphics?
    And:
    *Do mongols wear flags at their backs?
    "


    1. The Mongol campaign quickly becomes boring. Either you play the Mongols, in which case after you fight and win a few battles against the Hojo you have destroyed their main armies. The rest of the map is a cakewalk. On the other hand, if you play as the Hojo, after you win the first few battles, the Mongols have no hope. They just launch a few more invasions with weak forces, which you crush.

    The fun of the Mongols is playing single battles when you just want to unwind by crushing and destroying your enemies Very therapeutic after a tough day Pretend the Japanese are your boss or your spouse

    2. There are several historical eras. Each era has a different starting position, so it plays out quite differently. This is the chief value of the expansion MI and greatly adds replayablility.

    3. Graphics in MTW are better, but it's not that big a deal really, since in Shogun it's offset by the change of seasons. It's fun playing in winter during a driving snow-storm.

    On the other hand, castle sieges are very simplistic in Shogun. They can't even close the gate and you can't breakdown the walls. You can only fight in a big mob at the entrance, there isn't much tactical finesse here.
    Yours was not at first a criminal nature. At 10 you stole sugar,at 15 you stole money,at 25 you committed arson. At 30,hardened in crime,you became an editor. Worse yet is in store for you. You will be sent to Congress,then to the penitentiary. But,all will be well. You will be hanged.
    -Mark Twain

  21. #21
    Member Member Tera's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    Kenchikuka Library
    Posts
    349

    Default

    True, there are "eras" but they're 20 years apart mate. Can't really call them so. And factions are more or less the same in them all.


    The Order of Kenchikuka

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO