Cant post Topics in the MTW main hall section

**IceCold** · 11-13-2002, 02:30

I might sound abit over the top but i have good reason two. I am in the middle of making a mod for MTW and need some answers/advice from the other forums but i cannot do this until i am able to post topics in the other sections on the BB. Until that happens and i dead in the water.

This section of the forum is no good to me as if i post topics about modifying files etc etc it will be deleted.

Well if cant be able to post in other forums i guess i will have to try somewhere else. Dam shame Never have i had problems in other forums like this one NEVER.

**IceCold** · 11-13-2002, 02:37

LOL cant even post a reply without some crap about cannot post a reply and when i finally do post a reply its does it 5 times err something wrong here.

**Gregoshi** · 11-13-2002, 06:42

There are no topic limitations here in the EH as far as I know. Post what you need to here and ask that we move it to the appropriate forum. There are a few topics here that a mod has moved to another forum on their own initiative. You could also send the information in a Private Message a moderator of the forum in question. There are ways to achieve your goal.

When faced with an obstacle, don't just focus on what you can't do, but also on what you can do. I know, that is cheesy but it's true.

As for sucking up, that is hardly a requirement. If you take a look at the posts of those who have been promoted, you'll see that a fair number of them posted not one word to a moderator. And to tell you the truth, I'd rather not be thought of as a moderator but as a regular guy posting here - well, one with a magic wand to help others.

**fastspawn** · 11-13-2002, 10:17

hi, i'm new here (there i go stating the obvious) and i understand totally the reason behind the entrance hall. I am a regular member of several other forum boards and we do get flamers and smurfs and all that.

just take this as my first post and i hope to enter the main hall asap...

**Lord of the Isles** · 11-13-2002, 14:52

Well, I'm not new on the Org forums/fora. But I found myself visiting this group for the first time and was surprised to find out the Org's new (it is new, isn't it?) policy on new members.

Firstly though, let me say the moderators do a great job and the Org is probably the best fan site for a game I've ever come across (though the Apolyton site for Civ games is close). Thank you all of you.

But this new policy strikes me as extra work for the Moderator and frustrating for new members. You have a problem with MTW, you find this site, register and are all ready to post in the Technical Help forum. You can't.

I'm not going to start a peasant's revolt; I just think the policy is the wrong way to go.

**KukriKhan** · 11-13-2002, 16:11

Thanks for your input Lord of the Isles...really. We're looking into it.

**+DOC+** · 11-13-2002, 16:17

lol, i only just found out this place (Entrance Hall)existed today

Hi all. Strange concept, but i'll go along with it given recent events. To tell you the truth this place is actually no different from the Main Hall, the posts are equally interesting and the people too....

Anyway, until things settle down i'd just be content posting away here, i know i'll certainly be visiting here more often to check out some of the posts. Who knows, maybe this place will be better than the Main Hall?

Regards

**Hermes** · 11-13-2002, 16:17

Hello, my former name was aggonycougar, can you let me post as well??

greetings

**+DOC+** · 11-13-2002, 16:20

Oh and what's the difference between member, patron, junior, senior, mercenary, count, etc, etc....?

**ulyanov** · 11-13-2002, 16:20

Acutally - while I'm mildly annoyed about being stuck here, I think it's actually a *great* idea, even for those of us who have been around the 'net and Forums for years...

There's another forum I'm active on that discusses Broadband Internet in Australia (can I give the link? - Mods feel free to remove if it's not on) www.whirlpool.net.au and every day some stupid troll comes along, registers and posts absolute garbage through the forums...

My favourite was a guy who didn't know how to format his HDD. I love that... I worry about people like him...

We had another troll on a Board for Talonsoft's Bombing the Reich (I won't give that link out for now) who came in harping about Football (the European kind, not the US or Australian kinds) and then started carrying on about how England had defeated the US in war more often than not...

So keeping people here, even for just a few days or hours prevents that sort of abuse...

**Niccolomachiavelli** · 11-13-2002, 21:01

Forgive me, but your logic escapes me. If I understand you correctly, this new system is so that you wont have to ban flamers and deal with the inevitable subsequent discussions. But in the end, the very system you have set up has created discussion and controversy.

You also reference the idea that you want to keep newbies from posting redundant topics and the like. Why not simple restrict the ability to post a new topic until they reach a certain post count? Furthermore, I would think being surrounded by the mature and level-headed would often times be the surest way to elevate the new members to a more intelligent and acclimated state.

If there are other reasons for this system I would be interested in hearing them, as I remain confused.

**Sallustius** · 11-13-2002, 21:09

As i understand it the system isn't designed to completely stop the need to ban flamers, they'll get through anyway. But it does mean that anybody who joins and makes a complete nuisance to start with doesn't get through. This system is only controversial if people make it so, it's only a hoop to jump through, and it's their house.

**Niccolomachiavelli** · 11-13-2002, 21:17

Its controversial because it seems elitist and random in who gets promoted. So you're saying the point of the system is to act as a partial net to catch the flamers? What the point? you will have to contribute just as much effort to catching and banning the flamers and malcontents in the Entrance Hall as you would in the Main Hall. Whats the difference whether you catch them in one hall or the other? Because they might disrupt the discussions? Besides the fact that I find any claims of potential disruptions to be suspect, the implication would be that a disruption in the dicussion of members in the Main Hall is inherently more disasterous than such a disruption would be in the Entrance Hall. The further implication being that the members of the Main Hall are more important than the members in the Entrance Hall.

I merely need point at the ludicrous number of polls to demonstrate the fallacy that those in the Main Hall are more deserving than those in the Entrance Hall. How long has it been since you've opened the board again? And how many threads in the Main Hall have you had to close?

Again, your logic escapes me.

**IceCold** · 11-13-2002, 23:52

They should do away with this system of having to wait to post normal topics in the other sections. A forum is about talking to people about all sorts of subjects relating to something. I can hardly call waiting here in LIMBO talking. I call this stage being insulted for no reason what so ever.

**ulyanov** · 11-14-2002, 03:27

Gee, Limbo.

mabye if you hadn't proved yourself a total wally by repeat posting then maybe you'd be a Senior Patron by now.

Whinging is not going to help...

**KukriKhan** · 11-14-2002, 06:06

Steady fellas; take a moment to review the forum rules
http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin/forum/Rules.shtml
there's also a link on every page, near the top.

The kind of discussion going on today (basically all of page 2 of this topic) is the kind of heated, intense, emotionally-laden argument/debate that the .Org specializes in. Part of this 'vetting' process is seeing if prospective members can handle that intensity, WITHOUT resort to flame, personal attack, and reducio ad absurdum that stifles true discussion, intelligent debate, and reasoned argument.

This is a nice place - yet we fight all the time (if you want examples, I'll dredge up some of the old 'Yank bash/Euro trash' threads - very entertaining

) There's also a healthy amount of teasing, sports talk, gaming trash-talk, and all the other my-opinion's-better-than-yours talks that bless/plague other boards. ALL that is welcome here.

But we never get personal. OK, we have, but the member gets spanked.

Some of you feel insulted that there's an extra hoop to jump through, taking that hoop personally - as if the Org thought you weren't good enough as a person to enter our little teaparty, without the butler saying you're OK to come in.

All I can say to that suspicion is: Trust me:

No insult is either intended or implied. We crave the input of new members - it keeps us honest, and points the way to innovation.

This particular forum is heavily moderated (is that an oxymoron?) for a reason: everybody wants to see who's knocking on the door. We're ALL interested in what you have to say. So say it, abide by the rules, and you'll be welcomed with open arms. FYI, there have been very (VERY) few new patrons who haven't been 'promoted' within 72 hours; most much less. Love it or hate it, this is the policy today...see if you have what it takes to be a honorable, respected member of the .Org.

Look around, read the rules, post here - you'll be on your way.

**Gregoshi** · 11-14-2002, 06:10

Quite a few of those waiting here have taken it upon themselves to start a thread or contribute to one here in the Entrance Hall. There are a number of threads here I've enjoyed reading or contributing to and I've even learned a thing or two. I'm also seeing more oldtimers popping in here and joining the discussion. The Junior Patron status will be what you choose to make it.

Comment on polls in the Main Hall: it is a new toy to play with on our new board. The number of polls will drop to a tolerable level once the novelty wears off and everyone is sick of them.

Some trouble-makers will get by this system, but it is a lot more work for them to get many different user ids by it. With a post count, they can spam each user id to the required post count. With a time limit they need only create multiple user ids and then just wait...

**Niccolomachiavelli** · 11-14-2002, 06:13

I understand my previous posts were a little convoluted, so let me simplify what I meant. I am not bothered by my own status as a Junior Patron, regardless of how much I previously posted on the board. I am bothered, however, by the very existance of this extra hoop. I dont see this as a personal insult, but rather an ineffective and unecessary insult to many people in general. obviously it was not meant that way, but I think that the purpose of the Entrance Hall and the mechanics behind accomplishing it are flawed.

**Gregoshi** · 11-14-2002, 06:14

Excuse us moderators as we untangle our feet - LOL.

**fastspawn** · 11-14-2002, 06:16

chill it dudes,

this forum is theirs and if you dont like to play by the rules you can just leave. it's that simple...

**Niccolomachiavelli** · 11-14-2002, 06:24

So we should keep our mouth shut and not discuss the ideas shaping this forum in any way, and if we have any sort of qualms or disagreement over how it is run, we should immedietaly leave, by virtue of the fact that it isnt ours? Well then, be sure to chastise anyone who calls this board a community, as they would be foolish to do so in the context you present.
Somehow I doubt the mods and admins share your view. Call me naive, but I'm more apt to believe they are willing to engage in a dialogue in order to discuss whats going on with the board, provided it is both informed and level-headed.

**fastspawn** · 11-14-2002, 06:51

it's one thing to have a proper discussion. it's another thing totally to insist that the moderator's logice totally escapes you. If you have just sat down to think, you would have realized the reason why there is a entrance hall. Obviously there are cons like you have stated, but the moderator's have decided arbitarily that the pros far outweigh the cons and have implemented this idea.

it doesn't matter what the moderator's post, because with your stance, everything they post will be illogical. Just keep and open mind.

**Niccolomachiavelli** · 11-14-2002, 07:20

I am keeping a totally open mind, by asking the mods or admins to explain the logic behind their positions. I'm sorry if my statements come across as inflammatory in any way, as they arent intended as such. If anything I would think you would realize I am humbling myself before the reader by clearly stating that I am unable to understand something.

And regardless of having sat down and thought, I still dont see the Entrance Hall as solving any problem or serving any sufficiently logical purpose.

And finally, I dont see how you can assume that anything they post will be illogical. I dont think I've said anything to indicate that, nor have I said anything to indicate I would not be willing to listen to or evaluate anything they say. Its somewhat hypocritical you should tell me to keep an open mind to what the mods say when you yourself have failed to keep an open mind regarding how I will respond. You assumed, based on whatever reason, that I am an unreasonable person and that I would not listen, so I reiterate your own excellent advice to you: Keep and open mind

**Gregoshi** · 11-14-2002, 07:48

Ask 10 people to solve a problem and you will get 10 different solutions. That is what this boils down to. Just look at some of the comments about MTW. There are quite a few people who think any number of things about the game should be different (in their opinion): rebellions too strong/weak, spears/cav/swords too strong/weak, etc. MTW is what it is because CA made what they felt were the best decisions as to how the game should be. If a different mix of people created MTW, the resulting game would not be exactly the same game we have now.

My point? The staff of the Org has decided that at this time, the current policy regarding new registrants is the best one for the Org and its patrons. We are quite aware of the elitist and second class issue as well as several other issues. If different people ran the Org, chances are good that the policy would be different. However, the current staff feels that the benefits outweigh the negatives. Perhaps next week, next month or next year we'll think differently and change the policy. Then again, maybe not.

Similarly, every patron here goes through the same exercise: do the benefits of association with the Org outweigh the negatives you feel about the Org. If the negatives bother you more then chances are you will stop coming here or at least come here less frequently. Over time the Org will change and so will the benefits and negatives as you see them - and your involvement level will change accordingly. Of course, other patrons will see things differently as is demonstrated by the views expressed in this thread.

**KukriKhan** · 11-14-2002, 07:58

By Jorge, I think they've got' it THAT's how we argue here (thanks for the demo guys.).

No personal flaming (unless you look fairly long at the sideways reference to 'and open mind&#39

. Issues layed, opinions expressed, nobody hurt, point(s) made.

To the point(s): ...still dont see the Entrance Hall as solving any problem or serving any sufficiently logical purpose...

Have you been to the Main Hall and tried to find an informative, interesting discussion on any topic? Or can you speed-read through all the debris to come up with the 2 'gems' out of 2000 posts made today? Or perhaps you're certain that your individual new-topic post will be the be-all and end-all, never-discussed before (but answered on page two, at length) subject.

I'm picking on you here, Niccolomachiavelli, and I apologize for that. I find your posts admirable in their ability to convey your thinking - but am flummoxed that you really find no value in a gateway forum such as this.

Perhaps your position/point-of-view is mostly reinforced by fastspawn's attack?

Now THAT would be Machiavellian.

EDIT: and here we go tangle-footing again

. Gotta stop meeting like this Gregoshi.

**Gregoshi** · 11-14-2002, 08:16

If we are going to dance, some one has to lead. How are you on the dance floor?

**ulyanov** · 11-14-2002, 08:25

Does watching you two dance form part of the Apprenticeship?

Cos if it does - I'm outta here. There's some things a man shouldnae have to do...

**fastspawn** · 11-14-2002, 08:30

Ok are you guys teasing me because of the spelling mistake i made with an?? And now everyone is posting and open mind?

I am not a native english speaker, so forgive me if i seem rather blunt with my remarks because my ability is to phrase the structure of the sentence is rather crude and my sound either rude or patronising.