Some Mongal Invasion Observations

[Jaguar]

I know many people have already posted about it but i figured i would try to point out stuff some u may not have heard.

- Thunder bombers and korean skirmishers totally decimate enemy troops, but have very short range, try using them on hills with some light cav behind them for protection. They will have longer to shoot before the enemy reaches them.

-Korean spearmen suck, korean guardsmen are decent but VERY slow. For important battles stick mainly to Cav.

-The Campaign mode is great, u can choose many different time periods.

-The intro movie is much better than the last.

-Kensai are definetly not worth the money, they can take out around half a unit of archers before dying (depending on honour).

I will come back with additional info about the new Japanese Troops, unless lack of interest.

[Jon]

Keep the posts-a-coming!

[Algesan]

Ok, I'm going to chime in on the game.

No problem with chaos reinforcements so far, they have all been aggressive and showed themselves.

Mongols (on Normal) are sickening. I'm far more impressed with the MLC than the MHC so far, but the MHC is incredibly tough as reported. Speed, firepower and melee punch are awesome.

Thunda Booms are cute. First battle they were devastating. Second battle the first shot was devastating, the next two toasted the unit. I do not recommend using them on YC that is charging to a fight. The first shot went out the front of my 3 rank unit, then next two got tossed across the wide part of the unit.

Your old saved games are gone if you installed on top of the old version. They will come up and play and some of the features I saw there were interesting, but one really annoying thing was my forces auto retreating from provinces without me getting a say in the matter. Probably a bug of using an old game with MI, I certainly hope so.

I'll check on the Japanese tonight, but I am impressed with the improvement in pursuit by the Mongols. Much more intelligent.

The AI at Normal did pull some rather interesting tactical manuvers that impressed me. In fact, I used one of them in my next battle with the Hojos.

[stormrider]

the kensi are very good for flanking the oppenent ?? guess what we would have if we have 60 of them in a unit

[Shiro]

Quote Originally posted by Algesan:
Your old saved games are gone if you installed on top of the old version. They will come up and play and some of the features I saw there were interesting, but one really annoying thing was my forces auto retreating from provinces without me getting a say in the matter. Probably a bug of using an old game with MI, I certainly hope so.
[/QUOTE]

-Same here. My general with 40 victories kept trying to go back to "home."

Other observations from playing for maybe an hour or so:

-Kensai are easy enough to kill, just get enough men around them and they can't handle it. Tried a Kensai rush and did very well, but eventually lost.

-I found the Mongol Campaign while playing in the strat map just sort of boring and was more eager to play as Japanese. I haven't got to really doing it yet, but I've got all night. :-) I say boring, but many may considor it a great improvement as there is bunch less micro-managing. No building of units or building, well there are two, but mostly you just rely on what you get.

-Thunder Bombers are cool and they look really nice. As everyone said you've got to get them close enough, but protect them.

-I've got to check out the ReadMe for the map editor if I'm going to do anything with it.

-My manual is the same as the Warlord Edition, I think, from the fact that it says Warlord Edition on the front.

That's enough for now, got to play more.

[Jaguar]

I agree, being the mongols in campaign mode is very boring.

[Algesan]

I'm going to try the Mongols on Expert after I finish off Normal. The AI for the Japanese looks innovative enough that it might be a fight. Actually it is one now, but that is mainly because I outran my garrison troops a bit.

As for the new standard campaign. I've taken Uesigi on Normal and it is a blast. Teching up is very quick now and koku comes quicker. Sado had Spear Dojo the first year and was producing Nagas at 2 and 1/2 years.

The alliance rules are making it interesting as Hojo and I are bosom buddies, we keep blowing off the others to stick together. Imagawa took Shinano as usual when I turtled up in Mutsu-Echigo. Deciding to bribe one of his armies, I used my emissary after my alliance run to bribe the army in Chikuzen. Took it and overran Hizen, then backtracked to Chikuzen with half my army. Shimazu came at the same time so I let him have it, and since he had returned me my emissary's head, I then poured in Shinobi. After 3! consecutive turns of peasant revolts I got a loyalist revolt with ND, SA and 5xYA which took the province for me. The Portugese just landed and I'm thinking about going Christian to see the changes if any.

One thing that bothers me is that Oda got killed and all his lands went Ronin. I was allied with him at the time (his only possible ally with the various wars going on). I'm used to lands going to anybody but me when I'm playing, but that was real odd.

Morale seems odd. I didn't notice it as much with the Mongols since with MLC I was pursuing everything to destruction, but all three or four of my fights with Shimazu have resulted in him routing from my end of the map all the way off. I didn't pursue because he had YC and I didn't at the time and that can be a Bad Thing to do. They used to have the tendency to rally and fight after they got far enough away. Possibly that might be the purpose of the Drill Dojo, to boost rallying back to pre-MI levels.

I think all the old quick strike campaigns that hinged on a few early moves will have to be rethought. If you cannot get the Daimyo, then they may not be worth doing if they are based on hitting a target and shifting fronts.

[Algesan]

Just a few Mongol thoughts after some more battles. I don't think the units themselves are all that devastating. Very good, but not devastating, except for one small thing.

Speed.

They are so freaking fast it is unbelievable. Pull out of line, quick march to the exposed flank, turn and slam on in. Result, one chewed up routing unit. Something wrong on the other side of the map? Who you gonna to call? Bam, the MLC is all over your problem like white on rice. Of course this is the forte that gave them half the world.....

Oops, you forgot to give orders to that MLC for the last 5 seconds in the middle of the fight? No problem, they've dropped a couple of super accurate volleys on somebody.

Same problem with your MHC? No biggy, they _hunt_ people to hurt like it is out of this world.

I just wish we could mix the units, I'd like to see what muskets could do to these things.

[KukriKhan]

Aye Algeson, SPEED is the word...Mongols are FAST (on horseback). Highly recommend new players be Mongols first on custom battles to better understand how they work ("know your enemy"). Diving back in as Nipponese...will report.

[Yoko Kono]

Quote Originally posted by Jaguar:

-Kensai are definetly not worth the money, they can take out around half a unit of archers before dying (depending on honour).
[/QUOTE]

This is becoming a commmon misconception. Kensai ARE worth the 600 kokus and 4 season build time (battle ninja take 4, geishas take 8) and the legendary dojo u need to access them. Why? Because they do not die in battle UNLESS they are TIRED. Kensai make superb flankers, bridge holders and are ideal as Taishos and as a first wave assault across a bridge. If a Kensai dies in battle at the hands of another units then you can bet he was either way tired or badly outflanked.
The message being - Never let tired Kensai do the job alone, give em support
Its very easy to keep Kensai alive for a number of battles and the honor of these troops can easily be pushed to 5 or 6 after a few battles

Yoko

[Algesan]

Yoko, you are correct. The mistake people are making with them is to try and treat them like WM and rush. Sending a 16 Kensai rush against 16 other units is like sending 1 WM out against 16 anything. WM will kill like there is no tomorrow, but will end up losing through attrition.

[CeltiberoSkullXIII]

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

------------------
"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!"