Can anybody get friendly reinforcements in the x-pack? I cant get a single one to show up even though I have less than 16 on the field.
Speaking of which, the idea of enemy reinforcements appearing on *YOUR* side of the bridge is ludicrous... dont you think?
Quite ludicrous. You can usually get reinforcements if you have a larger than 16 unit army and you completely lose, through rout or destruction, a unit. If not, you've discovered a new bug.
My motto: Be sharp, not
well-rounded.
I always thought it was a major failing of river maps that reinforcements only appeared on the same side as your main force. What commander worth his salt would want to attempt to assault a defended bridge head-on without at least TRYING to cross elsewhere with a smaller force?
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BakaGaijin: I'm with you on that one, i like the idea of re-inforcements appearing from different area's of the map.
In the original game, the re-inforcements we're not a factor in a battle. Just rout the first 16 and wait at the entry point to rout the re-inforcements.
Now, re-inforcements are really usefull and add depth, another element, to a battle in sp. I can't wait to try a battle we're i send my weaker elements in first to "Tire" the AI army, while my heavy hitting "fresh" units come in as re-inforcements...SURPRISE!!! The Battle is not over...
KumaRatta Yamamoto Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com
ROFL, it is even worse now. I was going to start a thread on this anyway.
First point on the river crossings. Yes, any commander worth his salt will try to avoid a river crossing if at all possible, but any commander worth his salt will picket alternate crossings so he will know if the enemy does cross and can respond. This includes the attacker and the defender. It kind of cancels out in the tactical battle game. The only way to simulate this would be to add an operational level interface. Remember, this is the era where you can be a day's march away and the enemy has no idea where you are.
About the reinforcements in general, yes there was a problem with being able to camp the zone and rout off everything as it came on, but I'm more of the opinion that if you ran off the entire army, the rest wouldn't bother anyway..... As I understood it, the xpack was supposed to have an option to allow you to set your reinforcement point, but now it is a random shotgun proposition. This has not affected me much as the attacker since I win or lose with what I have on the battlefield anyway. As the defender, I do sometimes rely on archer replacements for units that have expended their arrows or extra shock/cav units to help with pursuit. I'll just have to make sure I have only shock units off map now after seeing my first mass reinforcement battles.
As the defender, I break the initial attacking army and pursue it off the field, carefully trying to preserve some unit stamina for further fighting. The next few enemy units come in piecemeal all over the place. I annihilate them by small unit action. Nobody survives to run unless they come in the original end of the field, which you can prevent by camping that end of the field.
After the first few get toasted the rest continue to come on all over the place, but now they are simply marching as quickly as possible for their end of the map and rout when any of my units get near. Now instead of _maybe_ getting to kill a couple and routing the rest, I get to pursue to destruction routing units all the way down the map after first setting up in a blocking position across their retreat path. It looks like as long as I have cav, I will pretty much double my kills on the defense now. It should work on the offensive, but I haven't attacked a province with more than a couple of spare units since I got the xpack.
While nice to get such big kill ratios, it is a bit silly......
Hrmmm. It sounds like a bridge attacker could bring some placeholder units (ashis, say) along with a decent pinning force, and then deliberately withdraw (not waiting for die/rout) the placeholders in the hope that his reinforcements appear on the other side of the bridge...
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He is justly served; It is a poison temper'd by himself.
He is justly served; It is a poison temper'd by himself.
Quote Originally posted by Laertes:
Hrmmm. It sounds like a bridge attacker could bring some placeholder units (ashis, say) along with a decent pinning force, and then deliberately withdraw (not waiting for die/rout) the placeholders in the hope that his reinforcements appear on the other side of the bridge...
[/QUOTE]
You are a sick man.
Hmmm, might be better to get a little use out of them. Send the YA over the bridge for the standard absorbtion of arrows and get a few shots at the enemy troops. When it routs, then keep it routing off the map. This delay would allow your normal assault to procede, firmly fixating your opponent on the bridge and allowing any units that appear on his side to take up blocking positions and then kick him. Either he ignores the new unit and it gets to set up freely or he detaches defense units to go after it. Win-Win.
Well, I was defending Mikawa as Imagawa against Oda. I had about 1000+ and Oda had 2900 (yes, 2900!!!).
My initial 16 units (played 60-man unit) managed to smash his 16. But suddenly I had like 2-3 Oda's monk units appearing on my side of the bridge, right behind my archers line.
Err... mmm...
You would think, I should at least get a warning of enemy encroaching from the rear... ?
Anywho, I managed to beat those monks (at the cost of my archer Taisho - rank 4...). Then came another 2 monk units with some ashis... then yaris... then more and more...
And mind you, they didnt show up routed, they came to fight!
At this time I've lost about half of my men with 4 units routed. I still didnt get reinforcements.
At this point, Oda has pumped 2000+ men to the map and I'm still stuck with my surviving 300 men.
Bug!!!
I had to withdrew as I just didnt have enough men left to fight Oda.
Final tally: 1700 kill, 700 loss (as my troop got flanked during withdrawal)
Anybody having the same reinforcement problem?
What was the problem Cima? Did you have more than 16 units in this battle and they did not come in as re-inforcements?
If yes, that is a problem-bug.
BUTif you had only 16 units then there was a problem but of a different type, you got beaten by the AIand that's OK. Can't win them all.
KumaRatta Yamamoto Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com
I can't seem to get any reinforcements either... I have had several battles where I have huge reinforcement armies available, but I never see them show up even though the AI reinforcements just keep on coming.
What's up???
(And yes I really do have more than 16 units in the province, and yes I have withdrawn tired or depleted units to make room for them.)
Kumaratta posted:
"What was the problem Cima? Did you have more than 16 units in this battle and they did not come in as re-inforcements?
If yes, that is a problem-bug.
BUTif you had only 16 units then there was a problem but of a different type, you got beaten by the AI and that's OK. Can't win them all."
No sir, I've had at least 5 units in reserve (I had 1000 in the area, 16 units on the field). I've had at least 4 of them routed, andin the original Shogun I would get 4 reserve units. Not in the x-pack.
Mmm... I was thinking more about it and it *seems* that in the x-pack the AI also only get reinforcements *ONLY WHEN ALL* its units are routed off the field. Is that true?
Maybe I should rephrase my question:
has anybody been able to get reinforcement units and did you still have your original units on the field at that time?
^_^
Good question Cima. Anybody noticed?
This is part of a post from Obake, on an another thread (he seems to get re-inforcements but has to wait a long time for them):
Biggest drawback I've found so far is the way re-inforcements are handled. I don't have a problem with them coming in all over, but I am concerned about how long we have to wait for them to come in. There should be a steady flow as unit's are destroyed or withdrawn as they were in the original. There is also some issue with their movement. If you try and group select them and move them as they are coming onto the map, they will scatter for the edges and stay there. You have to leave them alone and wait till they come to a complete stop before trying to select all and have them move to a certain place on the battleground. I've also noticed that re-inforcements are NOT coming in Fresh! Not sure if that was intended or not, and I'm not sure if I like it yet either. But it sure will prevent the see-sawing of troops as you route his with Fresh troops then he routes yours with fresh troops and so on.
[This message has been edited by KumaRatta Yamamoto (edited 08-14-2001).]
KumaRatta Yamamoto Sonkei soshite yuki Ratta Ichizoku. Come and visit us : www.rattaclan.homestead.com
hmmm... this thread is somewhat discouraging.
xzy
Yes, it seems you have to wait for a long time before reinforcements start to show up.
Yeah, it seems that reinforcements will eventually come. Just not for a while.
to taiji42x:
Don't let this thread discourages you. For me at least, the problem has only adversely affected a battle once (out of the 40+ I've done in the xpack). All the other little improvements they did make the single-player campaign more enjoyable.
Here's one particularly fun one:
Did anybody know that you can use a ninja to open the gates of a sieged castle?
That way you can end a long siege with very little(not sure how it's calculated)lost. You dont get to play the battle, but the siege will be over.
Basically he will open the castle gate at night and let your troops pour in.
Just drag him to a sieged castle in the main map.
^_^
I hadn't had this problem so I specifically set up for it in one of my campaigns. I just went heavy on the tech and along with my 16 unit YS, SA, YC army I placed my only WM unit. Finally Hojo attacked and didn't retreat before battle. I stuck one archer out in front a little just to let him run out of arrows faster and withdrew with the timer a little short of halfway through the battle. Never did see that monk. Only possible mistake in my test is that I did withdraw and did not self rout off the battlefield.
Cima, which kind of ninja is it?
My motto: Be sharp, not
well-rounded.
"Cima, which kind of ninja is it?"
Regular (not battlefield) ninja. Has to be high-honored, though, to succeed. The bigger the castle the harder it is (My honor 6 ninja only has 76% rate on a Citadel).
Kumaratta: You said (in a quote from Obake?) "if you group them and..." My experience is that when you have a group selected and click a "go here" command, that just indicates the center point of the group and the group stays pretty much the same "size". Thus, in my experience you simply CANNOT select a unit on the far left and a unit on the far right, group them, and click in the middle of the map. It just won't work. You will need to select them all INDIVIDUALLY and click on the desired point.
BTW, this "feature" seems to be the root of the main method to get your troops into the "red zone". I use it to make a group which is capable of chasing routers way, way into the "red zone" on the back edge to kill off a few more of them so I don't face them in the next turn of a campaign.
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