Factions re-emerging

[Lord of the morning]

Why do the english re-emerg in hungary?
All of brittain is revolting and the british government is cast aside by its own people, eventually they kill the king and brittan is all rebbels, so I (playing the holy roman empire) attack. As soon as I have attacked all british provinces rise to the cause of old brittan with the addition of Flanders and Hungare, both of wich I have heald for over 120 years and both having a happiness rating of about 140%. Ok for flanders, its close by and the english may attack it from their islan but hungary,how the f**k do the english rebels get to hungary?

[Gaius Julius]

Maybe, the AI had an hier fighting in Hungary when the king was killed, and the faction was eliminated. Eventually, a faction reappears somewhere. AI issue who knows?

[Rebel]

Er very fast horses, hehe only kidding.
As an English man myself, I was wondering that?

[SeveredSoul]

Gaius Julius [B]had it right I beleive. At least that has been my experiance. Generally when a faction re-emerges it will happen in a provence where an heir was at the time when the opposing faction was eliminated. When I say heir I don't mean a son of the king but one of his brothers or an uncle in the family line. Think of it like this, an English army is in Hungary when the faction leader is slain, that army is absorbed, if you will, into the local population. And you can fill in the spaces for the rest of it, the seeds of an uprising.

[Lord of the morning]

The fast horses may be an option but the hier thing is not, since the english had never held or attacked hungary for the entire game, also the hier appeared in scottland this time. Another thing though, is there any way to prevent factions from re emerging? The pope re-emerges all the time and with tha papalstates independant I get excomunicated making my zeouls people sad. The pope bbrings really well eqiped armies as well so I have to leave huge army nearby (like 200 royal kningts and 1000 elite infantry) and still Im usualy outnumberd like 3:1 when he apperas in rome.

[Sir Chauncy]

Well Lord of the Morning (great name by the way) Factions reemerge if they are wiped out. This is just one of the Facts Of The Game. If you read the notice that a faction has returned it says that
a number of rebel provinces have jojned their cause

If the Newly emerged English King is in Scotland, then te province of Hungary must have been rebel owned yes? However, this is a dodgy point. Several people have noticed that a reemergant faction can just pop up where ever it wants, or in places that it has never been. By all accounts some one had the Egyptions spring back into life in Lithuania. Bloody funny if you want my opinion. Even the poorest of secret police must have notcied them walking around kicking up a fuss way before they actually revolted

As for the Pope, if you read the description for the Italian campaign it says to try not to attack the Papal provinces. they seem juicy and sweet but are infact a nest of Vipers. The Pope always always comes back. they always escape with much of the Papal Heirarchy intact. I was playing Spain once and was sick and tired of being excommunicated for wars that I didn't have anything to do with. So i attacked him. Job done. In the space of about 20 years he had come back with thousands of men at least 7 times. The little bugger just would not take the hint.

[Gaius Julius]

Hi Lord It's quite possible that there is more than 1 hier. Sure, the hier re-emerged in Scotland, but he's probably next in line to the throne. That doesn't mean that there are no more hiers. As far as stopping a faction from re-emerging, I don't think there's alot you can do to stop it. I did read in the Table of Contents, about leaving a faction weakened, don't finish it off. When you're ready, finish the job. That'll work for you, but you can't control what the AI does.

[jLan]

Lord of the Morning, did you get that name from the Wheel of Time?

[Lord of the morning]

Thanks Sir Chauncy for complementing my name , JLan, you are correct in that it is from wheel of time (great books, anyone knows when the next one is due?) where it is one of many names for the dragon, the main character (for those who havent read the books).

However to the point, just as I said in my first post in this subject, Hungary was not rebel owned and had an happiness of about 140%, the same with flanders. Flanders was obiousley attacked crossing the englis chanal but Hungary, they cant get there in anyway, they had never been there and the people in hungary was happily sitting about bringing in a nice 1500 florins each turn.

As for attacking them in the first place the italians are warned whilst the romans as I played are encourraged to, Its a special quest when you play the glorious achivents type wich I do. Also If you dont take the pope youll gett excomunicated every now and then resulting in an angry population ad various crusades against you. Especialy the people of spain seems to grow angry when I am excomunicated. As for yor tip Gaius Julius about leaving them weakend I think Ill try that when possible in the future, thanks.

Just noticed another funny thing, some independant norwegian rebels spawned in Norway and they had 5 units of longbowmen with them, since when did the Vikings vield longbowes

[Gregoshi]

Lord, those Vikings are longBOWmen - long as in longboat and bow as in the front of a ship.

IIRC, sometimes when rebels appear, they may or may not have a loyalty to a certain faction. The faction is one that has held that province for at least one year, regardless of how long ago.

Now, why English in Hungary? Were the English allied with Hungary when you eliminated the Hungarians? If that alliance was via the marriage of a Princess, perhaps England had control of Hungary ever so briefly. Then again, maybe I should stop spinning around in my desk chair and I'd think more clearly.

[Rebel]

Hey L o t m,it's not as bad a problem. as when playing
Turk's in the camp. and the Golden Horde appear
man now that is a pain

[Lord of the morning]

The golden horde is quite nasty, I usualy play tha holy roman empire and qonquer polen and other eastern countries quite eraly so i get the horde in my as, the best way to avoid them is oftenmost ironically enoght to go to war with the turks and leaving my easternmost provinces unguarded making the turks invade them bringing about a Turkish/golden horde/novgorod war leaving me safe and able to conquer som turkish provinces.

[ZIM!]

yeah, I had the french pop up in North Afrika playing as byz usually when someting like this happens where rebellions and remergences in odd places I attribute it to interested parties such as bishops and emisaries of eliminated factions stirring up trouble(hiring mercs) and as far as the odd units in different factions I also attribute it to mercenary forces if at that point it still doesnt seem probable I just use the catch all reasona wizard did it that usually lays to rest any misunderstandings..as far as the pope try assasinating him and leaving loads of spies and assaassins in the papal states then just keep assasinating the pope if he excommunicates you if that doesnt work just use a wizard

[el_slapper]

What I say is that is simply a new faction, that keeps an older name for coding reasons... But any reappearance I saw always had a reason. France in Finland after a missed crusade, for instance.

[Elwe]

I had a nasty reemergence in my Danish campaign..

I'd finally wiped out the Spanish, my Grand Inquisitor burning their king at the stake as a Heretic. I owned the British Isles, Scandinavia and France, and I had several buffer rebel provinces in northern Spain from wiping out the Almohads. The Egyptians ruled everything from Syria/Antioch to Grenada.

Then a bad thing happened. For some reason, civil war and rebellion erupted in the Egyptian Empire, and every single one of their provinces except for Lesser Armenia rebelled. In a single year Egypt went from the second largest faction to holding only one province. Sweet, I thought.

Then, much to my horror, a mere two years later the 'Lost Heir' to the Spanish returned in Antioch... and every single province that had previously rebelled against Egypt joined their cause.. including those rebel buffer states I had left in Spain.

The Spanish went from wiped out to the second greatest Empire in Europe in 1 year...

(Danes, Early, Hard)

Cheers.

[Portuguese Rebel]

I got this hint from someone (don't remember who or i would give credit), but apparently you can stop faction reemerging in your territory. But you have to have at all times a loyalty above a certain level (i think the level is set by difficulty level). In normal it seems to be 120%.
This, of course, does not include the pope (he is a resilient little bugger isn't he?)

[Demon of Light]

I imagine the English ended up in Hungary the same way that Germans had a loyalist revolt in Castile...even though they had never been there. Ever. At all. I know because my brother cheated with the game and had the map showing from the start. The Germans had been kicked out of Germany and were occupying Kiev, Lithuania and some other Russian provinces.

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (Lord of the morning @ Jan. 05 2003,16:20)]The fast horses may be an option but the hier thing is not, since the english had never held or attacked hungary for the entire game, also the hier appeared in scottland this time. Another thing though, is there any way to prevent factions from re emerging? The pope re-emerges all the time and with tha papalstates independant I get excomunicated making my zeouls people sad. The pope bbrings really well eqiped armies as well so I have to leave huge army nearby (like 200 royal kningts and 1000 elite infantry) and still Im usualy outnumberd like 3:1 when he apperas in rome.

Did they have a crusade passing through Hungary when they were eliminated? The English crusades pass through there.

[Jabberwock]

Hi

It seems to me that whenever a decent sized rebellion is triggered there is a percentage chance that a faction will reemerge, particularly (though not exclusively) if associated with that area.
Secondly, it often seems the size of the rebel army in each province is, in part, determined by the size of the defending army. For example, I once triggered a 30 province rebellion ( ) by moving my king too far away (Ryzan? - can't remember). There seemed to a rough proportionality between the numbers defending and rebelling. North African or Iberian states where I had poor defences (miles from the fronts) maybe had a unit or 2 of Hashinshin and some ballistas attacking, while my heartland in central Europe had big stacks of knights and chivalric troops attacking. One of my kings uncles (great-great uncle more like) attracted 2 stacks with his 700 man army.
If your rebellion happened to trigger an English reemergence in GB plus a couple of odd states like Hungary, it would make sense (to the AI ) for the English king to reemerge with the strongest army. Did you have a decent defending force in Hungary?

I dunno - that's how it seems to me sometimes...

BTW: Book 10 of the Wheel of Time (Crossroads of Twilight) was released around Christmas, tho' you may all have spotted it already - expect a 2 year wait for Book 11...

[econ21]

Going off a belated tangent, but I think the Danes did have longbows... Longbows were apparently found in Ireland dating back from the Dark Ages and were believed to have been left by the Vikings.