View Poll Results: Who wants Slavs in RTW? - You have the power to POLL on Slavs

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61. This poll is closed
  • Yes, I want them in RTW as playable and unique faction.

    22 36.07%
  • Yes, I want them in RTW as nonplayable yet unique faction.

    4 6.56%
  • I want them to be mixed up with the rest of the barbarians.Yes, if the map is going to cover their territory.

    19 31.15%
  • No, I don't even want to see them on the map.

    16 26.23%
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Thread: Who wants Slavs in RTW?

  1. #1

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    Thogh Slavs and Romans didn't interact with each other all that often (Roman coins that were found on the Slavic territory proves some sort of trade between these two), I thing Slavs should be represented in the RTW, because they were viable and unique culture.

  2. #2
    Corporate Hippie Member rasoforos's Avatar
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    err....i do not think RTW will go all the way to 600-700 AD ...it is then somewhat difficult to see slavs in the game.
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  3. #3

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    In 600's Slavs were begining to be significant to the western history when they started to move into Europe's interior. But because Slavs didn't have alphabet Western historians ignore and disregard them during the Roman period. The truth is that at some levels Slavs were more advanced then Romans. Ex. They were much better farmers, they've cultivated some vegetables unknown to Romans. They were also really good metalsmiths. I say that if CA is going to include the portion of the map that the Slavs occupied back than, they should also include Slavs as a unique culture.

  4. #4
    Autocrat Member Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
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    if the game stops at 600-700 AD ( and can stop earlier too ) i dont see any reason to have slavs as an playable faction.as populations in some far territories in eastern europe , maybe , at the late stages of the game.
    the appear in Dark Ages and the period of R:TW is antiquitiy
    Tough Times Don't Last. Tough People Do. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. [Mark Twain]

  5. #5
    Toda Nebuchadnezzar
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    Can you explain to me where the Slavs are situated and who they exactly were.

    Because im pretty sure that where the slavs are now (Eastern Europe) the Huns were in control between 600 and 700 A.D.

    Just wanna know. I definately want to see the Huns as a playable faction. They were amazing at some points. Basically early Mongols.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Toda Nebuchadnezzar @ Feb. 12 2003,14:37)]Can you explain to me where the Slavs are situated and who they exactly were.

    Because im pretty sure that where the slavs are now (Eastern Europe) the Huns were in control between 600 and 700 A.D.

    Just wanna know. I definately want to see the Huns as a playable faction. They were amazing at some points. Basically early Mongols.
    Slavs are on of the oldest group of people to occupy Europe. They were a culture of farmers, craftsmen, and even fishermen ( some of them were even Vikings: a generic term usually associated with Scandinavian raiders ). They were a tribe culture with council of elders controlling the power. Underneath them in rank was commander of Druzhina ( a war band ). Slavic tribes were more united compared to others. They were crafty people that left behind many beautiful artifacts. They were also skilled metalsmiths ( a good number of swords was found ). They didn't have an alphabet, though their oral culture was full of Legends and Myths. They were polytheistic, and their main god was PERUN. The encompassed the area between the Baltic and the Kaspian Sea ( Present day west Russia, Belorus, Lithuania, Latvia, and parts of Poland/Ukraine ).
    By the way PERUN was god of thunder and WAR

  7. #7

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    Huns, after the death of Attila, were weakend. The have settled in present day Hungary/Slovakia. A new invading tribe, Avars, a turkish nomadic tribe, has replaced Huns and completely destroyed their presence in Europe. Magyars, a Finno-Ugric tribe similar to Huns, were another nomadic tribe to terrorize Europe. They didn't occupy Slavic territory. They came From the Ural Mounatains. They have destroyed the first feudal country Slavs ever Had: The Great Moravian Empire, encopmassing present day Czech Rep., Slovakia, Hungary, and Southern Poland.
    Way to go STUPID Magyars

  8. #8

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    [B]I would Like To Know Why Some People Don't Want Slavs On The Map? Thanks for answering.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member Longshanks's Avatar
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    I voted no because the Slavs do not factor in on the history of the Roman Republic, or the Early Roman Empire.(the period covered in RTW)They were still far from Roman borders. There are many other factions who would be far more deserving of being included than the Slavs, because they did factor in on the history of Rome.

    I would have voted yes if the question asked whether Slavs should be included in the upcoming expansion pack for MTW.(the time fram starts arounnd 800 A.D. I believe)

    But I wouldn't want to see a faction simply called Slavs. Its too generic. There were many different nationalities who were Slavic, much as there were different nationalities who made up the Celts.

    Novgorod is a Slavic faction in MTW, so are the Poles.

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ Feb. 12 2003,18:28)]But I wouldn't want to see a faction simply called Slavs. Its too generic. There were many different nationalities who were Slavic, much as there were different nationalities who made up the Celts.

    Novgorod is a Slavic faction in MTW, so are the Poles.
    Well Longshanks, Slav is as a small division as it got. Back then there were no Polish, or Novgorod. It was simply Slav. They had the same language and they had the same customs. It's when they started to move out of their territory, their customs, language, and even culture started to differ. German or Celt is a generic term. Sure Slavs would identify themselves by the area they are coming from, but that didn't make them different from one another.
    All I am saying is if the map is going to include their territory, they should be on it, just like the Germans will or the Celts. That's all I am asking for.

  11. #11

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    O.K. What other factions would you like to see that have a bigger right.

  12. #12
    Member Member Elwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]O.K. What other factions would you like to see that have a bigger right.
    Goths
    Celts
    Huns.



    Cheers.
    -- Elwe --
    I wish for a multiplayer campaign in Rome: Total War

  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Longshanks's Avatar
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    Factions that I haven't heard mentioned yet, but who should be included:

    Britons
    Dacians
    Parthians
    Suebi
    Iberians
    Celt-Iberians
    Seleucids




  14. #14

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    are Dacians slavic?

  15. #15
    Autocrat Member Vlad The Impaler's Avatar
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    Tempiic the dacians are an ethnical and religious group part of a bigger group , the thracians. they have nothing to do with slavic populations ( nor customs , religion ..anything )
    Herodot describe them as the most franc and fearfull in battles from the thracians.
    Pitagora give a lot of good example about them in his Moral and Political Laws
    also the latin poet Ovidius Publius Naso who was deported at Black Sea and study this peoples wrote a lot of poems about them.

    Slavic populations come in known roman world ( orbis romanus ) at a late stage and i dont think that are any conection ( not even commercial ) between this two populations.
    Tough Times Don't Last. Tough People Do. Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. [Mark Twain]

  16. #16
    MTR: AOA project ###### (temp) Member kataphraktoi's Avatar
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    Slavs in RTW??

    A resounding No.

    Why?

    Well not because I don't like the Slavs but simply because they were too fragmented to constitute a viable faction to with, they were based in the broad central european plains, the Slavs began their destructive course south due to pressures of eastward moving steppe people. eg. Huns, Avars and so forth. The Slav are too anonymous in the early stages to play a major factor in the world of RTW and frankly they could not compare to such factions as Egypt, Greece and Rome with an identifiable homogenity in their culture, true and granted Greece was disunited but compared to the Slavs are more coherent as Greeks rather than as city states, but even as city states Greeks were generally homogenous.

    Involving Slavs in RTW would cause more trouble than it seems if someone picked one aspect of it and exaggerated it. If CA made one mistake about thwe Slavs in the game would that cause a lot of controversy???

    Even if they included in RTW that would be interesting though.
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  17. #17

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    Rebel forces - yes, playable faction - no. Slavs tribes were known in Roman world as Veneds. Some historians think that ancestors of slavs appeared in Northern Europe in times of Herodotus but lack of evidences made those versions rather unproved. Slavs did not play any significant role in ancient world, so including Slavs as playable faction would be historically inaccurate.
    BTW Hungarians and Huns are two absolutely different nations. Hunns are supposed to be from Chinese area (hunni, chinese tribe, lived to the west-north of Beijing). Hunn movement from Asia to Europe was accompannied with accumulation of a number of tribes of asian and european origin (incl. slavs) in hunn's army.

  18. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Elwe @ Feb. 12 2003,20:24)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]O.K. What other factions would you like to see that have a bigger right.
    Goths
    Celts
    Huns.



    Cheers.
    Goths and Huns shouldn't be included if we want to be Historically accurate. You see the game is going to span until the first Emperor 10 A.D.?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Senior Member Longshanks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 13 2003,10:46)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Elwe @ Feb. 12 2003,20:24)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]O.K. What other factions would you like to see that have a bigger right.
    Goths
    Celts
    Huns.



    Cheers.
    Goths and Huns shouldn't be included if we want to be Historically accurate. You see the game is going to span until the first Emperor 10 A.D.?
    You are correct, neither appeared until the late Empire.(Huns actually didn't appear until AFTER the fall of the Western Roman Empire)

  20. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (kataphraktoi @ Feb. 13 2003,08:06)]Slavs in RTW??

    A resounding No.

    Why?

    Well not because I don't like the Slavs but simply because they were too fragmented to constitute a viable faction to with, they were based in the broad central european plains, the Slavs began their destructive course south due to pressures of eastward moving steppe people. eg. Huns, Avars and so forth.
    First of all, Celts And Germans Were much more fragmented: Britons, Longobards, Markomans, Ouads, etc.,etc.etc. So uoy'd rather pick all those small subtribes, but You wouldn't want Slavs? That's Just wrong.

    Second of all, Avars didnt push Slavs into the Europe. These two met in the central Europe around 800s. And by the way, Slavs contributed majorly by diminishing these nomadic tribes. Where have you been reading that. A comic. Look just pick up a history book written by somebody who's not ignorant torward Slavic history.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ Feb. 13 2003,10:58)][


    Cheers.
    Goths and Huns shouldn't be included if we want to be Historically accurate. You see the game is going to span until the first Emperor 10 A.D.?[/quote]
    You are correct, neither appeared until the late Empire.(Huns actually didn't appear until AFTER the fall of the Western Roman Empire)[/QUOTE]
    Actually Huns contributed torwards the destruction of Western Rome. Remember Attila.

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Sainika @ Feb. 13 2003,08:47)]BTW Hungarians and Huns are two absolutely different nations. Hunns are supposed to be from Chinese area (hunni, chinese tribe, lived to the west-north of Beijing). Hunn movement from Asia to Europe was accompannied with accumulation of a number of tribes of asian and european origin (incl. slavs) in hunn's army.
    You are incorrect. Hungarian is a modern term for people from Hungary. It is derrived from the Huns. And Huns aren't from China they are Mongolian Steps. Magyars, who had similar lifestyle as Huns, though were totally different people, were often times called Huns. In my country we still call them Magyars. Though you are right to say that Slavs would often times fight in the ranks of these nomads.

  23. #23

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    There is so much bias in this room. You all would like to play little fragments of celts, germans, iberians, etc. Slavs have the same right.

  24. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 13 2003,20:08)]You are incorrect. Hungarian is a modern term for people from Hungary. It is derrived from the Huns. And Huns aren't from China they are Mongolian Steps. Magyars, who had similar lifestyle as Huns, though were totally different people, were often times called Huns. In my country we still call them Magyars. Though you are right to say that Slavs would often times fight in the ranks of these nomads.
    AFAIK hunni live on a very large area including Mongolian Steps and northern China. They attack chinese provinces, loot them and went back to their steppes. One day Chinese was up to all this and began big war. They defeated hunnies forcing them to move to the west. So it began so called Great movement of nations. Hunnis were moving to the west, gaining smaller tribes into big army.
    When Attila died huns were weakened and during next two centuries dissapeared. Some of them inhabited modern Hungary and this place was named as Hungary. Hungarians call their country the other way (I think you know how) but they are not direct successors of huns. After huns these rich and beautiful places were inhabited by slavs, avars, even goths.
    Huns were asian-faced nation, hungarians are real europeoids so they differ from huns.
    BTW I will miss slavs as playable faction too but also I want RTW being historically accurate. Relax, I think there will be enough fun even without slavs at all.

  25. #25
    Member Member Elwe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (JANOSIK007 @ Feb. 13 2003,10:46)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Elwe @ Feb. 12 2003,20:24)]
    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] ]O.K. What other factions would you like to see that have a bigger right.
    Goths
    Celts
    Huns.



    Cheers.
    Goths and Huns shouldn't be included if we want to be Historically accurate. You see the game is going to span until the first Emperor 10 A.D.?
    Point conceded. I responded before becomming aware of the timeframe of the game

    Cheers.
    -- Elwe --
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  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Sainika @ Feb. 13 2003,11:42)][AFAIK hunni live on a very large area including Mongolian Steps and northern China. They attack chinese provinces, loot them and went back to their steppes. One day Chinese was up to all this and began big war. They defeated hunnies forcing them to move to the west. So it began so called Great movement of nations. Hunnis were moving to the west, gaining smaller tribes into big army.
    When Attila died huns were weakened and during next two centuries dissapeared. Some of them inhabited modern Hungary and this place was named as Hungary. Hungarians call their country the other way (I think you know how) but they are not direct successors of huns. After huns these rich and beautiful places were inhabited by slavs, avars, even goths.
    Huns were asian-faced nation, hungarians are real europeoids so they differ from huns.
    BTW I will miss slavs as playable faction too but also I want RTW being historically accurate. Relax, I think there will be enough fun even without slavs at all.
    I have been to Hungary and I have seen many Hungarians as a kid and believe me that some of them still rettain their Asian features such as black hair and the eyelids. When Huns have settled they have been either absorbed into the culture of new invaders or got destroyed by them. I know for sure that Avars, as I've pointed out earlier a Turkish tribe, are majorly responsible for that. Slavs also arrive at the same time as Avars. At that time, around 600s, is when the real division of Slavs begins. Their languages start to sound different, they start calling themselves differnt ( ex. Bulgars, Serbs, Moravians). Slavs become fed up with the Avarian raids and under the Frankish merchant, Samo, central European Slavic tribes unite and defeat them, around 700s. Samo has also repelled a Frankish invasion, which is pretty ironic considering that he was a Frank.
    Getting back to Roman Times, all I want is for the people to understand that Slavs weren't just some insignificant little tribe. In fact it was a huge tribe grouping spaning from Carpatian Mountains to almost Ural mountains, and form Baltic Sea to Kaspian Sea. I just want CA to ackowledge Slavs existence at the appropriate time and place, which is by the way, historically accurate. They don't have to be a playable nation, heck, they don't even have to interact with anybody. Or, since many people don't want to see them on the map, CA shouldn't include this large portion of the map. AFAIK, you say, you want RTW to be historically accurate. Well, that's all I am saying too. I wouldn't be very historically accurate if Slavs would be totally eradicated from the map, now would it?
    RTW will still be a whole lot of Fun even without Slavs as playable faction, but I still strongly oppose Slavs beig just totally wiped out of the map, if the map is going to include their territory.
    One Last question
    What does BTW stand for? I've seen it dosens of times, I just don't know what it means. Thanks

  27. #27

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    Nevermind abot the BTW. I have figured it out. By the Way.

  28. #28
    Isn't she pretty in pink? Member Rosacrux's Avatar
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    Oh, come on now, the Slavs in the BC era (which is basically what the game shall cover - read some posts in the Colloseum forum) were completely and totaly unknown. Nobody in the so-called civilized world had heard of them.

    The first Roman records about the Veneds comes pretty late to fit into the timeframe of this game. Plus, they had no actual political organization at the time and they didn't influence the rest of Europe up until the 4th century AD.

    So, no, Slavs shouldn't be in a game that covers late Republican-early imperial Rome.

    OTOH, we can all lobby together to bring more Slavs (Polish, Novgorod and Russian factions are already in MTW) into the Viking expansion if you like.

    BTW About Bulgars and Hungars:

    Hungars have nothing to do with the Hunns. The Magyars adopted the name because they liked to be the offspring of Attila's hordes, but they aren't relevant at all. They have more ties with Finns and Esthonians, for instance. Both linguisticaly and ethnologicaly.

    Bulgars: Originally a turkic tribe, they travelled into the Balkans, where they managed to become the ruling class of the area now known as Bulgaria, but soon enough they were absorbed by the great slavic population they conquered. So, the Turkic Bulgars became another Slavic branch, or - if you like it so - they gave their name to that particular branch of southern slavs.



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  29. #29

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    I still think the setting of the fall of the western roman empire as well as the Great Migrations make a great expansion for RTW

  30. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by [b
    Quote[/b] (Rosacrux @ Feb. 14 2003,07:46)]Oh, come on now, the Slavs in the BC era (which is basically what the game shall cover - read some posts in the Colloseum forum) were completely and totaly unknown. Nobody in the so-called civilized world had heard of them.

    The first Roman records about the Veneds comes pretty late to fit into the timeframe of this game. Plus, they had no actual political organization at the time and they didn't influence the rest of Europe up until the 4th century AD.

    So, no, Slavs shouldn't be in a game that covers late Republican-early imperial Rome.

    OTOH, we can all lobby together to bring more Slavs (Polish, Novgorod and Russian factions are already in MTW) into the Viking expansion if you like.

    BTW About Bulgars and Hungars:

    Hungars have nothing to do with the Hunns. The Magyars adopted the name because they liked to be the offspring of Attila's hordes, but they aren't relevant at all. They have more ties with Finns and Esthonians, for instance. Both linguisticaly and ethnologicaly.

    Bulgars: Originally a turkic tribe, they travelled into the Balkans, where they managed to become the ruling class of the area now known as Bulgaria, but soon enough they were absorbed by the great slavic population they conquered. So, the Turkic Bulgars became another Slavic branch, or - if you like it so - they gave their name to that particular branch of southern slavs.
    I have alredy made my point hundreds of times. Regardless if the Slavs were known by The Rome, they still existed. And if CA is going to include a map of their original territory and exclude them, that's what I am strongly opposed to. Has anyone read my posts completely?

    Give me ideas what Slavic nations would you like for VI X-pack. I know of one: The Great Moravian Empire, which existed during the 800s. At it's height it encompassed the modern day Hungary, Slovakia, Czech Rep., Southern Poland, and during the war with Bulgars, Svatopluk, its greatest king, annexed part of Bulgarian Empire. It was rival of Eastern Franks. So they called in the Magyar tribes to destroy this fragile country.

    It's not Hungars, but Hungarians. And I didn't say they had anything to do with Huns, except maybe few Asian traits that are still visible. Huns did settle in Panonia, so the invading population of Magyars mixed with the native population, which was by no means Hun, but sort of a mix of Slavs Huns and even Avars. And by the way Magyars didn't adopt the name Huns, or Hungars, it's westerners who gave them that name. They still call themselves Magyars and do people from my country. Please read my whole post before you're going to accuse me of misleading an information. I never said that Magyars are Huns, in fact I've clearly stated that Magyars belong to the Finno-Ugric group, which is related to Finns and Estonians.

    And about the Bulgars: I am not sure what they are. Though I think you're right about it. But if they were Turkish, weren't they related to the Avars? Because I am sure that the Avars were Turkish tribe too. I think that Bulgars might have been a mix of Turks and Slavs, and I am for sure you could find plenty of Slavs in their ranks.

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