What's better?

[GranCactus]

I'm blessed with a dilemma - I can have completely tricked out pikemen built in Sweden (gold armor, gold weapons) or Swiss pikemen with gold armor but no weapon bonus (in Switzerland, obviously). So which is better? Regular ones are quite a bit cheaper, but I've got 2 million florins burning a hole in my pocket, so I'm not worried about that.

[Knight_Yellow]

swiss by far

[Lord Of Storms]

I agree with the good Sir Knight defintely the Swiss.

[Heraclius]

both knight yellow and the SOS (hehe) are correct. Pikemen are pretty shoddy anyway, I wouldn't reccomend using them at all, especially if you you have Swiss Pikemen which are one of the best anit-cavalry units in the game hands down.

[GranCactus]

I didn't know pikemen were so disliked - I have very little experience with them. So I guess I should stick with billmen over pikemen. But what about billmen vs. Swiss pikemen?

[Heraclius]

GranCactus,

I'm sorry to say you've chosen another loser In my experience billmen are just dressed up peasants or urban militia. They'll put up a fight but not for long. Swiss pikemen are the best anit-cav unit in the game. Billmen would not stand a chance.

[Doge Enrico II]

Swiss because you get the valour bonus.

[Exile]

SAP are the toughest unit in the game, tho a bit pricy. If money is no object, then make them your primary infantry force is my suggestion.

[BDC]

Billman are lethal, in a multiplayer battle, fighting uphill, 2 regiments (valour 4, but so were the enemy) cut through two fully upgraded Royal Knight regiments with hardly any loses.

[Kraxis]

Billmen are simply one of the best units in the game... You need to employ them correctly but they are great, especially from Mercia.

[A.Saturnus]

Billmen and SAP are some very different stuff, I`d say, so take them both if you can. In SP, SAP are simple the best. Consider that they even beat JHI and cost less (support). But you get billmen earlier, they`re cheaper and have armor-piercing weapons. Better to compare billmen to halberdiers, but there has been a thread about that already.

[chilling]

I love my Swiss Almond Piecrusts.

[Gregoshi]

Helloooooo GranCactus Would you mind sending some of that excess florin my way?

[GranCactus]

Hands off my florins You can steal them from the French yourself.
Anyway, thanks to everyone for the advice. I've got Switzerland pumping out SAPs and Mercia keeping billmen coming, so I think I'll be all right. Until the money runs out.

[Portuguese Rebel]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ Feb. 24 2003,05:51)]Billmen and SAP are some very different stuff, I`d say, so take them both if you can. In SP, SAP are simple the best. Consider that they even beat JHI and cost less (support).

I did some brute testing on a flat map about this and played SAP against heavy janitors. I did 10 fights using optimal ranks for both (no upgrades whatsoever) and the janitors lost every fight. Before this i was convinced that the janitors would win but they are at a disavantage because of their numbers. But Janitors will beat Vang guards, but then again they cost a lot more

[Teutonic Knight]

SAPs, by far are at least 3 times better than pikemen....

[Kraxis]

Portuguese Rebel, the tests you did, did you do that as both sides? You need to do that as on Hard the AI gets an advantage of about 15% and on Normal the same advantage goes to the player.

As far as I remember the Varangains win slightly in a matchup against the JHI.

[Asimov]

Varangian Guards are good but they come late on the tech tree and quite expensive. When I play as Byz, I perfer the Byz Infantry.

[Heraclius]

Varangian guards may be expensive and come relatively late in the game but let me tell you, Asimov, they are well worth it. I am a self-described Byzantophile and I love the Byzantine Infantry but I find their morale to be a bit too low. Still, they are always the backbone of my army but my shock troops/cavalry stoppers and probably the best Byzantine unit in the game, with the possible exception of the kataphraktoi, are the Varnagian guard. They are very good on the defense, unbeatable on the attack (imagine 60 crazy Norse axemen smashing into your flank), have excellent morale and crush all cavalry. I really can't express my love for them in words but I tried.

[Elwe]

Quote[/b] (Heraclius @ Mar. 03 2003,21:19)]Varangian guards may be expensive and come relatively late in the game but let me tell you, Asimov, they are well worth it. I am a self-described Byzantophile and I love the Byzantine Infantry but I find their morale to be a bit too low. Still, they are always the backbone of my army but my shock troops/cavalry stoppers and probably the best Byzantine unit in the game, with the possible exception of the kataphraktoi, are the Varnagian guard. They are very good on the defense, unbeatable on the attack (imagine 60 crazy Norse axemen smashing into your flank), have excellent morale and crush all cavalry. I really can't express my love for them in words but I tried.

Hehe. But I do have to agree.. the Varangians are extremely good at making mince meat of enemy heavy cavalry. I had a good sixteen upgraded units in my Byz campaign before the game rolled on to Late era, so each of my top generals had two in his army right up until the end of the game (the rest were left behind the lines as a supply of replacements to ensure the combat units stayed at full strength)... Never leave Constantinople without them



Cheers.

[A.Saturnus]

I never played the Byz long enough to get VG`s but I`ve fought the Byz in some campaigns and the VG`s frightened me

... 9 ...

[Asimov]

But the VG is way more expensive than the Byz Infantry and I can train more Byz Infratry than VG in the same time, along with the support troops for the Byz In. Backed by missiles plus artillary, even French Heavy Cav can't break Byz Infrantry's line.

[Elwe]

You are right, Asimov, although I never use artillery in standard battles.. not worth the 'slot' they take up. A front row of ByzInf with Trebs/Arbs behind and Kats/PA/ByzCav on the flanks was enough to beat any army...

But nothing takes out a Catholic King/Prince like two units of VG closing in on him from both sides... he's not going to make his way off the field alive.

Cheers.

[Asimov]

Three Culverins are all I need to deal with any knights. They would be shot to pieces right from the begining of the battle. Even CMAA and CK are not immune to cannon fire. I love gunpowder.

[Elwe]

Until it rains...

Cheers.

[Dimeola]

Have used armoured Swiss Pike with armor bonus.....tho expensive they held ground against vicious onslaughts. I also like Feudal Knights.....whatever you get max as much valor as you can. And esp with pikes anchor their flanks.
Dimeolas