A Spanish counter to AUM?

[Snaproll]

Hello Everyone,

First of all, this is my first post to this forum, so I'd like to say hello I used to be moderately active in Civ3 forums, but I have since moved on to this great game. I hope to become an active participant here - this looks like a great place.

My question concerns my recent newly begun Spanish campaign. Basically, I'm having trouble with the Almohads and the Almohad Urban Militia. Is there anything in the Early period that the Spanish can hope to use against these? Jinettes, Spears, Militia Sargents, nothing seems to work. How do you all usually go about beginning a Spanish Campaign?

Thank you for any suggestions

[Panther]

Welcome
( neener neener neener Gregoshii did it before you )
Anyway I havent played the spanish much but i think the best possible way is to hold them with spears and quickly attack them from behind with FMAA or Knights.
Hope this helps

[econ21]

Yes, AUM are fearsome. Luckily, the AI does not buy that many so if you concentrate on smashing the rest of the army and evading the AUM (peppering it with arrows), that may work. Morale is very important in this game and if the AUM start taking missile hits, seeing their buddies rout, and being threatened by cav in the flank, they may well run. [This is kind of how you beat super-tanks in WW2 games eg 1941 Germans vs T-34 or KV-1].

Otherwise, as was said, hold them with spears and flank them.

One thing I've observed watching the AI Spanish and Almohads slug it out is that the decisive factor for the Spanish is often crusades. Declare a crusade against a neighbouring Almohad province and you may get some nice knights and order foot that will help against those AUM.

[hoom]

Plonk down so many units on their province that they retreat to the castle?

Jinnettes from behind?

Dunno really, haven't played as spanish.

[Snowhobbit]

Jinnetes from behind really works i used it in my campaign, and there is no almohads now

[Kraxis]

If you know how to use Jinettes then they are the best unit to counter the AUM. Their AP capabilities will rip the AUM apart, making them much easier to kill with your Feudal Men-at-Arms.
The tech for Feudal Knights is simply too steep for you to get them in time to defeat the AUM, and the Royal Knights are simply too few to fight them properly.
Archers can also do a good job, but don't expect much from them if the AUMs advance quickly.

So you reallly want to hurt them from afar and then hit them with your own hard hitters, FMAA.
Order Knights can be counted on, but be careful as not to waste them on yet another AUM.

[Snaproll]

I really appreciate all of your responses. It turns out that it wasn't nearly the problem I thought it was going to be. You were right - I have pushed the Almohads back to Tunisia and I've only seen 4-5 units of AUM. (I'm playing on hard difficulty). Most of the time I've got the rest of the Army routing by the time the AUM becomes a factor and they run as soon as the javelins start to fly.

I appreciate all of your help everyone

[Kraxis]

Ahhh... you seem to have found the magic.

Though you can fight the AUM directly as we have all pointed out, it is much easier to make the others run. Not that many Almohad troops are Disciplined or Elite. So if you can make one unit run you can take plenty with them.

[Kongamato]

An AUM unit looks almost like a policeman in riot gear. That shield of theirs is one of the keys to their survival. Use flanking to defeat them.

[Asimov]

Spanish has quite a few nice cavalry units, flanking would be a logical choice. Also, artillary would be nice too.

[HopAlongBunny]

Fear the AUM

I try to keep them occupied so I can overkill them. Jinettes on skirkish might pull it out for you. Hold'em with a spear unit; javelins from behind spears into AUM and a supporting attack with whatever is handy; militia works quite well, but it might be a little bloody (the spears will get really chewed up)

The earlier you deal with the Elmos the better; if you wait you may have to deal with battle-hardened AUM with high valour. Its going to hurt

[PoLsKa_HuSaRiA]

Spanish Jinets Thats the key

Keep everything but your Spanish Jinets at the back. Skirmish the AUM from the front with 1-4 SJ (depending on army size) Then get one or two on each flank to keep harrassing them. Eventually the AUM will break off and attempt to charge down your Jinets. Keep hitting their flanks. If one group decides to be a hero and charge after your Jinets. Lead them to the bulk of your army, box em in - then SLAUGHTER Works for me

Edited a few typos here and there

[A.Saturnus]

I modded the AI to use a lot of AUM. It has now usually 4 in it`s army. Interestingly, the Spanish still win in most of my campaigns. I guess the Jinettes do it.

[Snaproll]

I really appreciate your advice, but as it turns out it never became an issue in my campaign After easily winning the initial battle with the Almohads in Cordoba, I pushed them all the way back to Cyrenacia in the next few years. Here's the strange part - they RETREATED all the way

Yep that's right - I've heard so much about how tough the Almohads are for the Spanish, but I've pushed them back to one lousy province and I only had to fight them once They now get around 100 florins a year, so pretty soon they'll probably have to disband all of their units. I don't know why they retreated so much - They had plenty of units (a lot of them were peasants, however). Anyone else ever seen this?

[TanDaraDei]

I've had a similar experience plying the HRE. At rather early beginning I saw the Almo's advancing with ease on Spanish. Didn't want them to grow to strong before I deal with my neighbours and have a direct access to them so I sent some crappy crusade (1 order foot, 1 teut sgts. plus some cheerfull peasants that joined the ride). Guess what, the Almo's retreated. So I sent an additional army of some spearmen and halbardiers and the Almo's gave up a province after province leaving most of their army to starve in these castles they have just menaged to build. If they would make a stand at any moment I'd have to stop cause my forces were really limited. Strange

[SmokWawelski]

I say burn their souls and let them perish

[Gregoshi]

Hi Snaproll. Welcome to the Org. Sorry to greet you after you have been here long enough to be a veteran, but my pc was out of commission all weekend. What can you do, eh?

Good question. As I am very early in a Spanish campaign myself and have just opened hostilities with the Almohads, the advice here will be quite useful to me.

[Brutal DLX]

I think the others gave some pretty good advice. However, I just wanted to remark that you shouldn't discard the militia sergeants. They are cheap and have armour-piercing ability too. If you can hold the AUM with yoru spearman and flank or attack from the rear with the MS you can take them down easily. Of course, when you see AUM approaching, you should concentrate your missile fire on them.

The real problem with the Almohads is their fine high-star generals. Luckily Spain normaly gets great generals too, but if you are fighting the Almohads with, say, the HRE, then you really have a little challenge on your hands.

[kaaskop]

AUM att3, def3, armour4 ,shield bonus +1 def/armour 200fl
FMAA att3, def2, arm3, shieldbonus +2def/armour 175fl

what i'm trying to say here is that the fmaa will go head
on with aum and it will be an even fight. Of course
when the AI starts building them in granada(+1 val) then
the're nasty ,but this will take some time because the comp doesn't have the infra there to build them there yet.

IMO the aum suck because it's to heavely armoured to use in the desert the fmaa are actually better there and are
cheaper.

so the aum strenght is a bit of a myth (pre patch they were tougher), the main reason the myth exist to this time is that the AI almost always builds low quality troops so
compared to plain militia and peasant the aum will stick out yes .

you guys should try making peasants and urban militia unbuildeble once it's fun really ,the AI now have more money to make decent units

[Galestrum]

Tons of xbows concentrating fire, and then either hold them with militia sergeants and flank with MAA OR if they are in the open, slam them with a charge of F knights