I voted 100% this war needs to happen so that iraq free and not under the leadership of the A-hole hasadem thay have the right to be free evry one so America and its armed forces will prsut it untell the world is free.I have seen how thes peopol are liveing ITS NEEDS TO CHANGE IT WILL CHANGE OK.
Ps im not tring to be an a-hole ok i get mad whene i talk about it. its just so sad how thay live
"Even when I am gone, I shall remain in people's minds the star of thar rights, My name will be the war cry of their efforts, The motto of their hopes" Napoleon bonabart
EDDIE0909 after the americans free them will they allow them the great level of democracy they allow to their other allies? You know i am talking about Tyrkey ,pakistan , tajikistan etc... Cant you guys see that bush if filling the world with dictators? What makes you think that the Iraqis will prosper more under a quesling dictator put in position by the U.S?
some interesting reading material :
It is the decent way to know who you are about to kill
There is a world wide coallition , but it is AGAINST this war
Veterans against war
Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.
http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/
Hi eddie,Originally Posted by [b
Quote[/b] (eddie0909 @ Mar. 21 2003,21:40)]I voted 100% this war needs to happen so that iraq free and not under the leadership of the A-hole hasadem thay have the right to be free evry one so America and its armed forces will prsut it untell the world is free.I have seen how thes peopol are liveing ITS NEEDS TO CHANGE IT WILL CHANGE OK.
Ps im not tring to be an a-hole ok i get mad whene i talk about it. its just so sad how thay live
I can assure you there are a lot more people in countries a lot closer to home (think South!
As for them being free or not. Well you have 22 million Iraqis who have a choice of 1 person for President
Then again, you have 260 million Americans who have a choice of 2 people for President
yes we will do that first we will give them freedom and then after we will let them pick there owe leader and have rights and freedoms like the U.S and its allis it will happen in my sons life time i hope.
Ps. bush is sort of a pin-head but he is my commander in chef so i have to follow hes learship
"Even when I am gone, I shall remain in people's minds the star of thar rights, My name will be the war cry of their efforts, The motto of their hopes" Napoleon bonabart
I always knew we were on the same side
did i say that ooooooopppppppppssssss
"Even when I am gone, I shall remain in people's minds the star of thar rights, My name will be the war cry of their efforts, The motto of their hopes" Napoleon bonabart
knight yellow please dont tell me you think that every single person under saddam hussien doesnt like him of course there are many that do i refer you to this link
http://www.totalwar.org/cgi-bin....;t=8358
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
grizzly this is not the first time u have singled out many of my posts in an attempt to bait me.
no1 else on this thread fealt the need to flame that statement and some infact agreed.
i have already complained to the moderators about ur attitiude towards my posts and by continuing to try and flame them u are only painting urself into a fairly guilty corner.
so for both our sakes stop singiling out my posts out and just accept that sum1 does not happen to agree with u on some subjects.
yours respectfuly Knight_Yellow
Edit: spelling
British Army: be the best
knight yellow i am not trying to bait you i pick out the post i most disagree with and seen as were pretty much sitting on almost opposite ends of the spectrum their usually yours now i have not broken any forum rules and i have not said anything inflamotory what so ever
and im sure the mods will agree that this post or any you have complained about are inflamatory
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
LittleGrizzly, it is not a matter of being inflamatory to Knight_Yellow. It is a matter of harrassment. It appears he cannot post on anything without you chiming in and disagreeing. And this is a fine example of it. You had to go back 33 posts to dig up that quote of Knight's - 33. There was a lot of discussion inbetween, yet you felt it necessary to single out his post. Knight seems to have a point, doesn't he?
You both would do yourselves a favour by ignoring each other's posts. You can just assume that the other will disagree. It would also save the rest of us from listening to your little sniping wars.
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"Even when I am gone, I shall remain in people's minds the star of thar rights, My name will be the war cry of their efforts, The motto of their hopes" Napoleon bonabart
gregoshi this was infact my first visit to the entrance hall and as soon as i saw this topic i jumped on it (having no idea knight yellow had posted in it) so as im readin thru i generally qoute what i disagree with and say why i disagree with it and there was another one i disagreed with the one about if we dont get rid of saddam world war 3 will start i actually never got round to doing that oneQuote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Mar. 21 2003,22:54)]LittleGrizzly, it is not a matter of being inflamatory to Knight_Yellow. It is a matter of harrassment. It appears he cannot post on anything without you chiming in and disagreeing. And this is a fine example of it. You had to go back 33 posts to dig up that quote of Knight's - 33. There was a lot of discussion inbetween, yet you felt it necessary to single out his post. Knight seems to have a point, doesn't he?
You both would do yourselves a favour by ignoring each other's posts. You can just assume that the other will disagree. It would also save the rest of us from listening to your little sniping wars.
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Mr Bush says no
roflmaoQuote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 21 2003,23:37)]Mr Bush says no
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
You need only to read these forums to realize Mr. Bush isn't the only one to say no.Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 21 2003,23:37)]Mr Bush says no
LittleGrizzly, me thinks the issue is best handled off line. We won't bore the rest of the Org patrons with such matters. Expect an email.
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ok sorry for this spilling over into entrance hall and tavern wont happen again (i hope)Quote[/b] (Gregoshi @ Mar. 22 2003,00:06)]You need only to read these forums to realize Mr. Bush isn't the only one to say no.Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 21 2003,23:37)]Mr Bush says no
LittleGrizzly, me thinks the issue is best handled off line. We won't bore the rest of the Org patrons with such matters. Expect an email.
In remembrance of our great Admin Tosa Inu, A tireless worker with the patience of a saint. As long as I live I will not forget you. Thank you for everything!
Maybe there is hope after all...
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yes there is lots of evidence that Iraq has been shooting at our planes the whole time, these are not just isolated incidents. It has happened many times, many have been filmed by forign tv crews and witnessed by other un soldiers. No one denies that sadham shoots at the planes inforceing the no fly zone.
The reason we had to come up with a new excuse for war is b/c many of the real reasons are so old that they would not work on in the public arena. The original gulf war ended when sadham sued the UN for peace, pleading that we stop the massacre of his troops and in return he would cooperate fully with the UN and the UN inspectors. As soon as the US military was pulled out sadham started shooting at our planes, threating the inspectors, buying chemicals and weapons components not allowed by the treating and not telling the inspectors where they were. The treaty was broken but our soft headed president clinton never did any thing about it for his eight long years. Now that is all so old that the world wouldnt accept all this as reason to go to war.
On the other side you have this rubbish about preemptive defense. Sadham openly supports terrorists, he always has and he himself said he always will. He refused to allow the removal of the terrorist training camps located north west of bahgdad, he pays terrorists for successfully caring out attacks against isreal or america and he pays the families of suicide bombers. Now imagine yourself as a starving palestinian man, with no possible way to feed your family who are all certianly going to die of hunger and diesese, yet if you blow up yourself along with a large number of isrealis then your family will get enough money to feed themselves and pay for medicine for a long time. Imagine that, and then tell me that sadham doesnt represent a terrorrist threat.
(dont tell me its all propoganda, most of my information comes from international news sources and has been established by multiple sources. You might as well say sadham doesnt really exist and that its all a conspiracy)
Save the kurds
1)you mean the US was shamelessly trying to get what it was asking for? how horrible that a nation would try to get somthing it wants done through the UN. I have absolutly *never* heard of any other nation doing somthing so dispicable (sarcasm, thick)Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ Mar. 21 2003,17:49)]Let's put some more oil into the fire. It might be that numerical scale is better, but IMHO giving 10 choices is still way too much.
As far as general discussion, US have raped UN. Pretty much what they did was:
(1)Try to get the resolution, without success, so finally they decided that THEY do not need approval of UN, and will use the previous resolutions. Well, if they were enough, why did they try to get newer ones and backed up only when it was clear that they would not get permission to use force.
(2)Later on some officials said that US would not need permission from UN to commence military campaigns protecting its interests. Pretty much it says that UN is only good as long as it plays along with US, when it does not, it is not needed or important to comply with. Well, did Hitler say that he was protecting Germans from polish people by attacking Poland?
(3)There was no evidence presented to support the case of the US. I know: US officials said a lot of things: read my words: PROPAGANDA (any country does that).
(4)Do you think that the decision of going into war was approved after the SH decided not to leave the country or after the inspectors did not find anything, or before all the forces were assembled or the reserves called upon or the number of tanks, plains and ships moved into the region? I do not think that you can make it happen overnight...
(5)Supposedly Iraq has forbidden weapons. So does Korea, India, Pakistan, ISRAEL and number of other countries. In the meantime Israel, in the same region, is occupying another country for years now and killing people on the streets. And they have weapons of mass destruction. Will US attack them?
(6)Who can say what type of weapon a country can or cannot have, US? On what type of authority is that based? Would people from UK, Germany, Spain, Australia, and Canada like Americans to come over and disband their military? These are not rouge countries; but was US in real danger from Iraq?
(7)US now says that Turkey cannot protect its borders and move some troops into the region. Well isn’t that what US is doing: protecting itself?
(8)There is always time for war. Lives are too precious to take them away for oil. Did you hear that US is already planning to capitalize on Iraqi oil? And of course install new government, pro-US one…. Another puppet government…
(9)America never experienced WAR, real war on its people. Unlike countries of Europe it was not ravaged by bombardments, armies moving through, hunger, despair and hopelessness.
(10)Daily I hear in my office people complaining for living with low-quality cable TV, no air conditioning in our “cube”, the fact that fuel went up by 10 cents… This is the highest inconvenience for Americans. What if they were forced to leave their homes in rubble, leave their SUV behind, live in fear of dying under “smart” bombs…These people do not know what WAR is, it is only a BBC show for them…
(11)They, IMO have not right to wage war upon other nations. I agree that Saddam might be a threat to humanity, and should be dealt with, no question here. I agree that if indeed, the people there are treated the way that US says they are, we should do something about it without delay. However not by using tanks and tomahawks. I understand the storm of notes that we are bringing peace and freedom to Iraqi people: the same way Hernan Cortez brought faith and heaven to American Indians, and the same way that early immigrants freed Apache and other natives from their savage way of life: at the edge of the sword of US Cavalry…
2) No nation needs permission from the UN to do any thing, they can ask for support from the UN for various reasons but if they do not get support it in no way means the nation cannot choose to act alone. On the other side, if the UN decides that a nation is aggressivly waging a war, which is illegal by international law, then the UN has to pass a resolution saying that the war is aggressive and illegal, then the offending nation has a grace period in which to back down before action is taken against them. Basicly, the us wanted help, didnt get any help, so now they stand alone. No US official EVER said that they would back down if there was no support from the UN, the opposit actualy, they always said they wanted help but would fight with out ANY allies if they had to.
3)Your right, its all propoganda, there is pro war propoganda and there is anti war propoganda. Dont think that your opinion is based on more reliable sources then any one elses. The hidden agendas go bothways, there are many powers at be that would like to see bush burned for there own motives and they hype up the anti war movement similarly to how the bush administration is hypeing up the pro war movement. Although no weapons were ever found, that is not what the inspectors were supposed to be doing. The UN knew that it couldnt win a hide and go seek game with sadham, the inspectors were supposed to find out if sadham would cooperate. See if sadham would willingly show the inspectors what had been done with the chemicals and other illegal stockpiles, sadham never did and never will cooperate. The inspectors did there job, they found out that sadham was full of shit and had no intention of disarming, no weapons were found but they were never supposed to be found.
4)There is a big differance between preparing for war and going to war. I dont see how you can acuratly assume that war was inevitable the moment the build up started. Primarly because, like you said, it cannot happen over night. It was neccissary to be prepared for war even though there was a chance there wouldnt be one.
5)I cant seriously believe that you are suggesting we have a cookie cutter, one size fits all type of forign policy that says the US ether always attacks nations with these weapons or never attacks nations with these weapons. Ether policy would assuredly end in gloable destruction, the US cannot attack all those nations, yet i am shure it will have to attack some. I deplore the US's support of isreal, I consider isreal to be a regime based on terror and a bloody occupation. Yet im not going to argue that sadham should be allowed to continue his reign of terror just because other nations are allowed to. It would be nice if we could eliminate all the evil in the world, but if you demand all or nothing, you will get nothing.
6) were not talking about handguns and switchblades here, the weapons we are dealing with are capable of eliminating all human life from the earth. There must be some sort of regulation on these weapons, allowing any nation to have them is not an option and it is infinantly more dangerous to try and take away a nuke from a country that has it then to try and prevent a nation from getting one. Like most authority (police, teachers, governments) the US's authority is not based on always being right, The US's authority is based on being the only one capable (or apparently willing) to enforce such an authority *AND* the need of such an authority. EX: police would not exist if there was no need for them, police are often wrong, often jerks, yet you absolutly have to have them in a modern society.
7)lmao, now this i find funny. In the one place where it is *almost* impossible to argue the US is wrong you still manage to try. That boarder the turks want to protect is a boarder with the kurds, the turkish and the kurds HATE each other and turky is in screaming fits over the fact that the US wont allow turky to go in and occupy kurdistan. The kurds pose no threat to the turks mainly because any possible way for kurds to fight any one was ruthlessly eliminated by sadham hussain and the kurds. If you read some history on the subject you will see that the kurds have been royal screwed by every one they have ever come into contact with, two times by america, so if you have a problem with the US telling the turks to leave the kurds alone then I'd like to hear your moral reasoning on that.
8)Werent we just on the subject of propoganda? this is such a good example. Lets also think about the alternatives, the us could NOT install a government, leave the iraqis to suffer under consistant uprising of warlords and bandits. Maybe we should install a new government then, but how about an ANTI US one... that would be great huh? I wonder if sadham would take the job...
9)lmao, revolutionary war? civil war? didnt happen? to long ago? well any how, they did happen. The civil war claimed more american lives then all other wars we have fought combined. Largely b/c both fighting sides were americans. Any how, I do see your point but your refrence to american never experienceing a homeland war is just not true. I think it is wrong to assume that america is quick to go to war b/c of that, I think just the opposit myself. I think it might of been this thread where some one stated (correctly) Polls during ww2 showed that 1% of the US population supported american involvement, the number soared to an amazing 2% when asked if they would support involvment should france and brittan be taken by germany. sufficed to say, america is not particully keen to rushing to war, the government often times has sticky fingers but the people are mostly isolationists.
10)I might be mistaken, but I have a feeling that you dont know what war is ether. Or that you know what it is like to live under a terror regime like sadhams, I fail to see how our common ignorance would make your opinions superior to those who are equally as ignorant as yourself and I.
11) In your whole post i see countless refrances to how wrong every thing the US is doing is, war is wrong, Us diplomacy is wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Now, I hate to generalize, but like most anti war people i have had the pleasure of disscussing the issue with, I find you know exactly what is wrong with every thing the US is doing but have failed to ever include suggestions about a better way of doing things. Not war isnt enough, we have been Not waring with iraq since the peace treaty of the first gulf war and things have only become worse with each passing year. Diplomacy only works with leaders/nations that will keep there word when given to a diplomatic agreement. Sadham will agree to any thing, any demand, he just never follows through. Now, I ask you, you said what is wrong with the US and all it has done, so what is the right way?
Now im not trying to flame or put down any person(s) or opinions in this post. I understand that I have a natural moral disadvantage when trying to argue pro war because with no midigating curcimstances it is certian that war is a bad thing. So I researched my position and feel i have a resonable supply of facts and thought out concepts to support my positon. I dont feel im smarter then any one here so I'd like to keep any responses to my post of a debating nature. I do however feel i have reaserched the issue more thouroghly then most, and i thouroughly recommend that any one who wants to spend some serious library time reaserching the same thing. The UN meating minutes are *mostly* open to the public and that is a very good place to start.
Save the kurds
Hi Wordsmith,
Whilst I would have liked to contemplate your considerable posts ...
... sometimes brevity is far more consistent with clarity
im sorry i cant reduce my arguements to catchy slogans or a funny picture. As long as my post is I can garuntee you it doesnt even begin to scratch the surface of the complexity of the issues involving the US war against Iraq.Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 22 2003,18:56)]Hi Wordsmith,
Whilst I would have liked to contemplate your considerable posts ...
... sometimes brevity is far more consistent with clarity
If it helps, this is the jist of my argument-
BOMB SADHAM, ATTACK IRAQ, BOMB SADHAM, ATTACK IRAQ
@ yourself there buddy, no offense but you might want to find a simpler topic if you prefer shorter conversations.
Save the kurds
Wordsmith - perhaps he didn't read you name?
Seriously, yours was an excellent post. Your well thought out opinions might threaten some in the propaganda crowd - leaving them only spam as a counter. Take that as a compliment.
Wellington - I think you should apologize.
- All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
That was the WHOLE pointQuote[/b] ]Wordsmith - perhaps he didn't read you name?
Long posts from a wordsmith - jeez do I have to signpost dry humour. DOnt yo know what this -
If wordsmith, or anyone else, was offended - I sincerely apologize.
No more dry humour
I'll keep it simple, and obvious, from now on
haha.....i was wondering whether you were playing around with his name.Quote[/b] (Wellington @ Mar. 23 2003,17:25)]That was the WHOLE pointQuote[/b] ]Wordsmith - perhaps he didn't read you name?
Long posts from a wordsmith - jeez do I have to signpost dry humour. DOnt yo know what this -
If wordsmith, or anyone else, was offended - I sincerely apologize.
No more dry humour
I'll keep it simple, and obvious, from now on
An economic forecaster is like a cross-eyed javelin thrower: He doesn't win many accuracy contests, but he keeps the crowds attention.
Anonymous
Confucius said He who sleeps with itchy buttocks, wakes up with smelly fingers
Fair enough. To me
Do not misunderestimate the power of emoticons.
- All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
'justified' is a highly subjective, personal opinion.
'upon us' is the reality.
I just hope that this war does not spread, and is over quickly.
Maybe history will decide if it was justified.
ichi
Stay Calm, Be Alert, Think Clearly, Act Decisively
CoH
Reading material of the day , by Rasoforos
It used to be humour , now i am not so sure it still is
This is humour though
(Picture of graphic nature , dont watch if you are under 18 or do not want to see blood , thanks to Jayrock for reminding me of this , i apologise for forgeting)
Iraqi civilian 'liberated'
Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.
http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/
The third picture was a shame though. In the New York Times there was a picture of a little girl drenched in her own blood with here family lying wounded or dead around her.
Heraclius you are just being a silly Greek...-Galestrum
The early bird may get the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese.
lmao i loved the busterizer
lool, good shit. Any way, if im only being faulted for posting a LONG message then I will take that as a complament. Although Id be more intrested in hearing comments about what i said, instead of how much i said.
Save the kurds
yep i really liked the blusteriser the first time i saw it. Especially the World-America one
Αξιζει φιλε να πεθανεις για ενα ονειρο, κι ας ειναι η φωτια του να σε καψει.
http://grumpygreekguy.tumblr.com/
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