YEP! Just last night I fought Oda (I'm Usugiesp?) they were in a citideal in the middle of thunder an lightening with 60 Musketeers inside the wall. They fired on my troops (through the wall) the sound and smoke appeared and my SA's fall down go dead! Is this a bug or new rifles instead of muskets. Rember this was heavy rain and a wall. Maybe citedeals have gun ports?
Does anyone know what's up?
Interesting, I haven't seen muskets in rain yet although I've played a lot of online games already.
I did have muskets OUTside a fort and could only fire in when I was above and through the doorway. (I took the fort by the way!)
I did have some muskets that could fire during a light rain. . . but that was always true, you just have to wait for the rain to let up at times. . . timing is all.
I'll have to test the rain theory. . .
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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."
DragonCat
. . . on the prowl!
Shouldn't muskets on the inside of the wall be able to fire fairly freely? Loopholes, firing steps and such are always present in fortifications.
Missile units have always been able to fire out of castles. They can fire in just as easily, but guns (and now Crossbowmen, I guess) need line-of-sight to fire. If the unit is at the bottom of the hill going up to the castle, it can't see in and can't fire.
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Disappear into the Darkness!!
"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
"Hey, why are the enemy throwing their cookware at us?" *KABOOM* -- Thunderbomber sneak attack!
Now I'm going to go out on a limb here,
I'm going to make 2 seperate assumptions, and let you decide which is more plausable
*** (rotflmao) ***
Assumption 1 >>
it's NOT a Bug,
The muskets are sheltering from the rain under the ramparts and firing through 'firing notches' cut into the walls!
Assumption 2 >>
it IS a Bug,
The developers wanted muskets to be able to fire OUT of castles and FORGOT to refer to the Check Weather function BEFORE opening fire with the guns!
What do you guys think...
What do I think? see comment marked by *** above...
[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 08-14-2001).]
The winds that blows -
ask them, which leaf on the tree
will be next to go.
Well, i know that musketeers don't suffer the same steep weather penalties that arques and sam archers do... maybe it is the case that now muskets work occasionally in heavy rain.
I have also noticed that a particular weather condition does not hold constatnt throughout the entire day. In other words, in light rain, it will rain for a bit, then slow almost to a stop, then start again, etc.... lol, maybe it slowed up for a bit.
And, as it has already been stated, it wouldn't be uncommon for firing holes to have been made in the walls (which weren't exactly made of concrete back then) for castle defense.
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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."
"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."
Ermm... could it also be that weapon upgrades for guns make them more reliable?
Anyway, i wouldn't sweat this little detail too much. Seems to me that the enemy could keep the guns dry inside the castle walls or under protection until it was time to fire them. I would suggest that you try a custom battle without the castle assault in heavy rain and see if your muskets fire.
In fact, i'm off to try that now...
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"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."
"You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."
In several games now I have had muskets firing in the rain. At first, seeing it was raining, I grouped them in my rear guard, but noticed the indicator didn't have that dreaded x! So I moved them on up and used them. The only thing is that the rate of fire is incredibly slow. I was thinking it was lag from the rain, but now I think it is just harder to load them in the rain!
I love how we are second guessing the developers all the time! Did they mean this? Did they plan that? Did they think of yadayada?
Well I bet they love it too!
Anyway!
The fact is that they work in the rain now!
Be ready!
Watashiwa Yagyu Jubei desu Ganbate
Haven't tested in heavy rain, but in light rain they do seem to be working - although they also worked in the past - as a previous post says, it depends on how the rain is AT THE MOMENT.
As to the castles - I think the person was referring to shooting INTO the castle and not out. Needs to be investigated. In my only castle siege game, I had guns OUTSIDE the castle and from certain positions I was able to fire in- these being at a height and angle that allowed direct line of sight and through the gateway. Otherwise, no sight line, no shooting.
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DragonCat
"On the prowl . . . ."
DragonCat
. . . on the prowl!
Well... youz know those funny-lookin' conical hats Ashigaru wear? Me thinks that serves as an 'umbrella' of sorts in rain. Thus, you can shield the firing mechanism from the torrents and fire away! Of course, water in the barrel would make them spew in funny trajectories, kinda like spit does on baseballs... so me thinks accuracy would decline.
Interesting though... will have to research the impact of this on the mighty wet gunny wedgie army of doom...
[Sips sake, eats popcorn]
I have just played several battles in the same castle (3a) in summer,
in all instances the nmumber of kills was about even,
defending muskets can fire through the walls!
defending muskets can fire through the walls when it IS raining heavily!
My honest opinion,
it's a bug!
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon
The winds that blows -
ask them, which leaf on the tree
will be next to go.
and a footnote, i used muskets with no upgrades (h2a0w0) for this test!
And the results are in!!!
Muskets can DEFINATLEY fire in the rain on all maps!
once again i used h2a0w0 musks...
[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 08-15-2001).]
The winds that blows -
ask them, which leaf on the tree
will be next to go.
What about Arquebusiers? Can they fire in the rain too??
=MizuDoc Otomo=
=Clan Takiyama=
Just to clear thing up a bit. I was attacking the castle. The A.I. was inside the citadel firing from behind the wall in a monsoon complete with fake thunder an real lightening.
Has anyone tested wether they fire when it's snowing?
I can't seem to get the game to snow
- just when you WANT adverse weather 8)
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon
The winds that blows -
ask them, which leaf on the tree
will be next to go.
At last, the muskets work as advertised!
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Disappear into the Darkness!!
"If your soul is imperfect, living will be difficult." -- Ryo Hayabusa, DOA2
"Hey, why are the enemy throwing their cookware at us?" *KABOOM* -- Thunderbomber sneak attack!
this is not a good new!
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"It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it!"
It's better to let the enemy alive as to kill it ... To TORTURE it
Someone was telling me that muskets were susposed to fire in the rain in the original version of the game, but for some reason the programming didn't work properly.
To my understanding the MI version of the rule is that muskets (improved versions of matchlocks) now fire in the rain, but the harder it rains the more slowly they fire; whereas ARQ's (matchlock) do not work in the rain.
Like I said in some other threads: the worst part about the new system is that foot archers, (costing almost twice as much as muskets), are now virtually obsolete in multiplayer games.
It seemed before in MP games that many players who lacked mad skillz just made up for it by taking a shitload of guns and trying to blow the other guy off the map + I'm sure that the situation will be even worse now that there is no fear of getting caught in the rain with too many guns.
This is a perfect example of why the cost of units in SP-campaign games and MP/custom games should not be the same. -It is okay in SP-campaign that muskets are so cheap because it takes a huge amount of koku to get the gun factory up-and-running before you can buy any units, whereas in MP and custom games you can just buy the unit cheaply without set-up costs being a factor.
To my mind some costs that are fair and balanced in SP-campaign games (because of high set-up fees and the inavailability of good units in the early stages of the game) are totally out of wack for MP and custom games.
The four primary offenders in MP and custom games are:
1) Muskets (under priced relitive to archers).
2) Naginata (over priced).
3) Archers (over priced relitive to muskets).
4) Heavy Cav (over priced).[/list]
Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence
ok, here's the skinny about muskets, not arq's...we didnt test those.
yuuki and i both took 1 unit of muskets into a game online. we picked a day where the rain goes from no rain to full blown gale. i took a H9 W3 A3 unit and he took an H2 unit with no mods.
we faced off at about equal heights, no castles or any other obstructions and had at it. with no rain coming down, the reload rate is normal and accuracy is normal. as rain increases in strength, RELOAD rates go down and accuracy drops as well. the harder it rains, the slower the RELOAD rate and accuracy. so, muskets are still relatively worthless in rain, except as doorstops.
as for castles and firing into and out of them. it's always been true that guns can fire from behind castle walls and that guns cant always fire into castles. normally, the reason you cant fire into a castle with guns is due to height and line of sight. also bear in mind that most castles sit up a bit higher than the surrounding terrain so guns in castles also get a range advantage due to the height. they really did do a pretty good job with this. it's not bugged that i can tell.
we havent tested the firing through friendlies thing with guns yet, so i dont know about that one.
K.
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I'm sorry, but i never apologize.
Originally, MUSKETS WERE TO FIRE IN THE RAIN.
That I remember from before the game came out. Whether or not this is a good thing, that's up to each person.
Personally, I might be worried b/c now there will be some who load up on even more guns.
Firing through walls, you can always fire at an enemy behind the wall, you just might not hit him.
And I think you can fire from inside the castle to outside without penalty (or much of one).
-Zen Blade
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Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member
Zen Blade Asai
Red Devil
Last of the RSG
Clan Tenki Council-Unity, Retired
SHS Core Member, Retired
Derelict from an older age.
I heartily endorse the comments of Kurando, Kraellen and Zen_Blade regarding teppo. You guys save me a lot of typing! When it comes to posting I am really lazy.
In heavy rain I would stop ALL firearms from working completely. These were matchlocks after all. Even when I try to prime and load a flintlock in a downpour it is impossible to keep the powder dry. I can only imagine how hard it must be to keep a match burning too.
I beleive teppo and archers in fortresses and citadels should fire better in any weather than their opponents outside, including having more ammunition.
Kurando's remarks about MP and SP differences are especially pertinent with all of the discussion afoot concerning unit balance and cost. SP can compensate strategically for unit stat variations in ways MP cannot. CA must tread carefully IF they intervene here to avoid breaking more than they fix.
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.
O.k. here is a quote from the NEW WE rule book that comes with the game. Page 52
----------------Quote------------------------
"...\Like the Aquebusiers they can only fore their weapon in very light rain at reduced rate and accuracy. Heavier rain will render their weapons useless..."
---------------------------------------------
So they are they are suppose to be unusable in any but light rain!
In the old version muskets (to my knowledge) could not fire out of castles. If they can now, that is one pesky stupid bug we no longer have to worry about.
As for firing in rain-- always seemed to me that there should be SOME allowance for firing in rain, and especially snow, as opposed to the old zero-tolerance policy. Having not personally examined the new system, I can't say much about it, but from what people have been saying it sounds like some sanity has been added and things are working just about right now.
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Khan7
.
Teppo have always been able to fire from castles and during light snowfall. Any rain at all used to shut them down completely though.
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.
Quote Originally posted by Kraellin:
ok, here's the skinny about muskets, not arq's...we didnt test those.
yuuki and i both took 1 unit of muskets into a game online. we picked a day where the rain goes from no rain to full blown gale. i took a H9 W3 A3 unit and he took an H2 unit with no mods.
we faced off at about equal heights, no castles or any other obstructions and had at it. with no rain coming down, the reload rate is normal and accuracy is normal. as rain increases in strength, RELOAD rates go down and accuracy drops as well. the harder it rains, the slower the RELOAD rate and accuracy. so, muskets are still relatively worthless in rain, except as doorstops.
as for castles and firing into and out of them. it's always been true that guns can fire from behind castle walls and that guns cant always fire into castles. normally, the reason you cant fire into a castle with guns is due to height and line of sight. also bear in mind that most castles sit up a bit higher than the surrounding terrain so guns in castles also get a range advantage due to the height. they really did do a pretty good job with this. it's not bugged that i can tell.
we havent tested the firing through friendlies thing with guns yet, so i dont know about that one.
K.
[/QUOTE]I have to agree with Kraellin. And how do you guys get those cool icons by your name???
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"Nothing is impossible for those who have a strong will."
"Wanting a fish to eat when standing on a lakeshore is not as useful as leaving the lake to make a net." §
"Nothing is impossible for those who have a strong will."
"Wanting a fish to eat when standing on a lakeshore is not as useful as leaving the lake to make a net." §
It is unfortunate we have no real way of knowing what part of the musk behavior is a bug and what part a feature. And what the feature/bug is, anyway.
And to go wildly off-topic for this one post, I'll post icons.gif once again:
The long-promised Mongol icons shall appear in the foreseeable future, I swear. It's just that as long as the European expansion keeps getting delayed, I can't do them...
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"It is my sole wish to serve the Emperor as His shield. I will not spare my life or honor."
- Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, composed on December 6, 1941
"It is a good viewpoint to see the world as a dream. When you have something like a nightmare, you will wake up and tell yourself that it was only a dream. It is said that the world we live in is not a bit different from this".
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure
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