Want more tatics in the game?

[FearofNC]

as was pointed out in a recent post...the faster clicker sometimes has an atvantage.. i think one of the biggest reasons you dont see tatics in mtw like you did in stw is becasue of the increased online game speed. the laggy games of stw gave players time to think and make more accurate troop movments...control their armies better. if ca includes only one more hosting option then my vote would be for a speed slider, that could be adjusted in game to slow things down a bit before the fighting starts.

[baz]

is good point NC, im kinda thinking lately its the fact your line will break before you have a chance to manouvre other units into position .. hence power armies that win front on are popular

[FasT]

IMO i find the game speed slow......Go back to MI that is fast too fast i guess..
MTW speed is just about right.IMO

AS for units breakin BaZ before ur move all ur others, that its dew to moral etc and longjohn2 is adding +2 i hear. So this will help for a more thinkin,tactical game

[Dionysus9]

Yes, Fast, I agree. I heard that NC cant get on the STW server for some reason, so its understandable that memories would fade a bit.

I went to STW and man is it FAST compared to MTW. Yes there is lag here and there, but those Yaricav are like freaking banshee-demons compared to Alans. They scream around the map like they have a turbo-v8 under the saddle. Talk about fast clicker

And so, althought I rarely do, I have to disagree with ya NC, m8.

[Kocmoc]

the speed is very nice, but the cvbonusses and the less important and lessuselfull flanking spoiled the game.


u dont need to flank, if u do u lose mostly and win near never as the cav jsut get so many bonusses, the cav is the mainprob, so we need to change them or we are spoiled.

k

[Puzz3D]

Dion,

I think NC is refering to original STW. It was slower than WE/MI. Apparently, some bug fixes in the network code speeded up WE/MI. When I play WE/MI now and everyone in the game has broadband connections, it is indeed very fast.

While I find the gamespeed ok in MTW some players do find it to be a bit fast. Slowing down the gamespeed could make the game accessable to a larger number of players. I don't think you could make a big slowdown because many battles already take a long time to complete and they could end up taking far too long to finish.

[LadyAnn]

I find that game without lag is better than with lag.

Annie

[AMPage]

I would love a speed slider, but i doubt we would get one. Lot's of players would complain, if you wanted to slow down the game speed. Mostly the new players which is a lot on mtw wouldn't understand why you would want to slow the game speed down. They would quit cause of the slow speed and it's bad enough having lots of new players esc as soon as they start to lose. It would be great though for playing with people you know and competitive games.

I loved the slow game speed back in stw big games where i could chain rout 2+ armies using tricks and knowing how to work with moral. In MI as yuuki pointed there wasn't as much lag in the bigger games when all had fast connections, but you still had a few nice good laggers. Now in mtw the coding is good enough to play at normal speed in 4v4 all the time and even host 4v4 with no lag, so there aren't any good old laggers. Of course when i talk about laggers i mean the game speed slowing down and not your frame rate.

In slower games it gives you a chance to control all your units at once, when the time comes. So it dose help bring out your skill in games where the game speed is slow. I may be a fast clicker, but no way can i give all my units at normal speed the attention they need at once. So it would nice to slow the game speed when i have to control all my units at once. Allow each player to slow down the game speed a certain number of times for a certain amount of time would be nice.

I've seen people say before that they can control all 16 units at once without the need of slowing down the speed. Sure, you can move them all at once, but can you use tatics with each unit at once? I doubt they can, cause i never came across someone who used each unit skillfully at normal speed, if you think you can please ask me for a game online and show me you can. Since the game speed dosn't slow down i never have enough time to control everything and use tricks with each unit, but of course no one else dose, so it sounds fair right?. Anyone can throw there 16 units all at you at once, but the normal speed makes it harder even for the most skilled to preform good movements against such tatics. If you could slow down the game speed at such times it would give a much greater chance for the person who knows how to use his units properly to use his units properly.

I've played games in 1v1 where i was losing badly at 1st then turned it around in my favor towards the end. Why? That would be because after i lost over half my army or more all i had to control was just a few units. I could only click so fast and be at one place at a time, that sometimes a few units or more would get in bad spots and i'd lose that flank. And me knowing how to react better being the more experienced and skilled player was able to over come the odds against me with just a few units.

This is why i don't understand why people want to control over 16 units in the game without a speed slider. Are we trying to reduce the skill lvl of this game?

Anyway, a speed slider would be a nice option to have in the game.

[FearofNC]

sry if i was confusing...unit speeds in stw are fine...but it was the pauseing every few seconds that gave you time as amp said "to pay attention to each unit"

this should also just be an option...im not advocating a slower game speed in general...just an option for the host to slow it down when they need to...or give everyone three 10second slow downs to use whenever like or something like that.

it think it would also be helpful to the newer players when they first come online...with more time to watch the detailed unit commands some of the vets use, the learning curve might be higher.

i cant say this was my idea...amp pointed out the fact the quick game speed makes for click fest type tatics.... i just highly agree with it.

plz plz plz include a speed slider in vi or rtw

[Tera]

We need to distinguish two related but different aspects of speed.

The time one has to micromanage his troops is one thing.
The time the actual units 'fight' before they rout is another.

The latter is perfect I think. There are many 100-men spearmen and holding units hence the fighting time is extended. I think they give you enough time to study the units and make tweaks in engagement. Plus it's more entertaining.

The former sucks a bit especially when you do a fast attack. You've got to be a really fast clicker if you want to engage every single unit correctly...mouse/cam lag would be a killer I guess - glad to have a fast PC there.

Tera

[Dionysus9]

Ok, now I'm following you NC.

I agree wholeheartedly with all of the above. TW is a lot like chess-- for each move the enemy makes there is an appropriate countermove. I think we should have more time to think about our counter-moves. 3 "slow-mo" opportunities per player would be nice.

Now, competitve chess players play with a chess-clock. In a "5 minute" game of chess there is no time to think you just respond from gut instinct. you move, move, move, move. Very little thinking going on in a short-timed chess game, especially in the opening stages. You try to save your "time" for the critical moves.

In a friendly chess game you sit back and think for as long as you need to. You see the enemy move and consider your options before moving to counter. Time is not even an issue. Put your feet up, relax, have a beer, think...make your move.

In MTW, as AMP said, you have the potential to make 16 moves simultaneously (as opposed to the single move of one unit in a chess game). You certainly do not have time to "put your feet up and ponder" your response to a 16-unit attack as if time was not an issue--but I think you should have a chance to at least think about your response before having to act.

Of course, a general should be under some time-pressure. That doesn't mean he must be a master-clicker, but rather that he must make decisive moves when necessary. A lot of the guys I play MTW with are over 30--they aren't as fast at "clicking" as kids, but they are twice as devious.

I'd like to see this game slow down a bit to give the devious general with slow hand-eye-coordination an equal (or greater) chance at victory.

Simply put-- "clicking speed" should have nothing to do with your chances for victory. MTW is significantly slower that MI/WE, but I think the addition of an allotment of "slow-mo time" would be a welcome addition.

Something to consider for R:TW.

[Magyar Khan]

i predict for twr that w eget numerous formations accessable with hotkeys..... imagine


i wonder if my shaman predicts this too

[Monsta]

I predict that Monsta predicts that he sees a grim future for MP unless we see some kind of patch/fix for the current issues and not just the old 'elbow' like we got in MI.

Monsta predicts that 'we' will moan but then get lost in a world of groupie sheep as the hype for RTW comes to 'our' eyes..does this seem like history repeating itself?

maybe we will get another leech like DD tempting us with scraps thrown from the msters table?

[Kongamato]

War is Hell.

[youssof_Toda]

This is also a matter of personal preference. While trying to outmanouver ur oponent you face two problems.

1. Gamespeed too slow: it gives the oponent too much time to think over ur moves. In the end the element of surprise is ruined cuz of 'slow-motion' play. Personally I realy h8 it when this happens.
2. Gamespeed too fast: armies become uncontrolable.

I wonder if slower gameplay would realy improve things right now. Suprising ur enemy is a key element of the game, if you make the game too slow this element will be ruined. Outsmarting or rather outhinking (think one step futher than ur enemy, srry my english is not that great) the oponent will become less important.

[Magyar Khan]

thin lines limit manouvring as well where wide units sweep the floor esp in mid-battle scenes. i am slowly beginning to accept its a totally different game , more close to warcraft 3 than to old shogs. and all is left is playing other games and moaning in here while admiring my signature

[Tempiic]

I suggest you try some 20K or 25K games then... since units wont break as fast they do in 15K gives more time to counter enemies attack... Also Flanking and Rear attacks play a bigger role than in 15K, since rarely a straight head on attack on enemy army will succeed on its own. You need to flank (for both morale advantage as well as the combat advantage it gives you)

Oh before you all moan bout thats for newbies and such, i suggest you just try it at least once with other good players... You might be surprised... unless you all are too jaded to see.