RTW units Descriptions

[Stormer]

check these out

totalwar.com

[Heraclius]

and so it begins.

[Stormer]

lol

[Hakonarson]

God what a load of tripe

I hope the rest of it isn't goint to be this silly

[CBR]

Hmmmm

Yes not a good start really ...

CBR

[Stormer]

i also admit they set it out pretty shit and it dont all make sense.

[Nowake]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

I can't believe my eyes ... Noooo ... Better to not post them than this ... It's a nightmare ... I'm watching cartoons or what? ...

[Basileus]

hehe wtf come on CA

[shingenmitch2]

What the F*ck is that? Fighting in ordered units?

sigh....

In my wish-list I gave at least 15 very interesting REAL ancient peoples all of whom have at least 2-4 different unit types... BUT ARE THEY COOL ENOUGH? noooooo

we get the Gladiator troop How about an entire unit of Retrarius Gladiators?

Next I want Godzilla cause he's cool and could be in a unit with the Ordered Foot Mothra....

[CBR]

Etruscan Gladiators:

Famous for using nets to pin down their enemies and cut the throats with very sharp and long knives.... and of course they are vicious and scary and all that...


Medusa Gladiators:

Although not many of them in their usually well ordered units, dont think they are easy to defeat. If their helmets are not enough to scare away their enemies (Enemies that know of the Medusa myth...barbarians from north dont care) They can bring in some very vicious tigers if needed.

etc etc

You just wait and see

CBR

[Spino]

Yes that Samnite Gladiator unit is cause for alarm but please keep in mind that it behooves CA and Activision to make gamers to draw as many parallels between Rome Total War and that cheesy Hollywood epic "Gladiator". Chances are this unit won't see any action except during those infamous slave revolts that shook the foundations of Republican Rome (i.e. Spartacus' slave rebellion).

Irregardless of the game's subject matter or design gladiators make for great press and it's all about sales kids.

[Kongamato]

After reading your responses, I cant help but hear Comic Book Guy from The Simpsons saying "Worst Game Ever".

[Stormer]

and the tee-shirt to go with it

[Stormer]

[A Nerd]

Don't fear this gladiator, he will probalby be lots of fun to play with. Worry only about balancing issues.

[shingenmitch2]

Fun?

If I wanted FUN I'd play a video... er.. uhmm...


------
But seriously... its still stupid to add fantasy units to what is essentially an ancient warfare sim... They don't add flying saucers to to F15 Strike Eagle do they? Perhaps the Borg would go well with IL2? How about Lasercannons to Close Combat VI?

Hell, they don't even try adding Stormtroopers to a Star Trek game because of "realism"... but the ancient warfare strategy games need Kensai and SuperGladiators. I mean if they want to make AD&D Total War, just make it and spare me the cheese...

I should just be happy that it isn't equipped with the friggin' batman-mask that Russel Crowe wore in Gladiator...

[Knight_Yellow]

so i take it we dont want gladiator units then?

[Kongamato]

Really, if you have to have such issues with this game and that it wont be your secret computerized heaven of perfect realism, then maybe you ought to quit whining and calmly slip into the night. There are probably ten people who will like the game that are willing to replace you.

[Hakonarson]

It's not a matter of wanting perfect realism, just not wanting pointless fantasy.

sure there's a need to spice thigns up, but consider that there's probably plenty of variety available from historical prototypes without having to enter ther realms of fantastic fiction.

Here's some possibilities from within the period that actually existed:

Mixed gladiators - fed up with their life and death these desperate men welcome the chance to rebel or fight for fredom when called upon as a last resort. They are individually brave and skilled, but NOT trained to fight together in formations.

Extraordinarii - Latin allies had fought with the Romans for centuries, and het pick of their infantry were the Extraordinarii. Elite fighters equipped with javelins, shields and armour, trained to skirmish and fight hand to hand they led the Roman armies and provided bodyguards to the Generals.

Velites, Hastati, Princepes and Triarii - the Roman legion.

Velites - younger and poorer soldiers who cannot afford the full arms and armour of the heavy infantry these troops skirmish with javelins and spears. Eager for loot but disciplined they provide the Legion with the ability to weaken enemy infantry before the clash of the main lines.

Hastati - Armed with the formidable pilum, a short sword, large shield and body armour these fearsome infantry are the first to attack the enemy. they are formed from the youngest of the heavy infantry, and so are eager and strong in the attack.

Princepes - men in the prime of their lives these soldiers are equipped in the same manner as the Hastati, but beign older and richer theirs is of better quality. They are also more experienced and less impetuous than their younger comrades.

Triarii - the veterans. What more needs to be said?
Behind every legion was the sure knowledge that these heavily armoured veteran spearmen would form a solid wall to rally behind if things went wrong.

Ligurians - nimble tribesmen from the alps, these tribal warriors are fielrce and well adapted to fighting in their hilly terrain. they combine teh ability to skirmish with javelins with hand-to-hand fighting with swors and axes and their large shields. A very useful addition to any army fighting in hilly terrain.

Achaian peltasts - these mercenary troops are well equipped with javelins and longer stout spears. Capable of fighting from dispersed formations as skirmishers or in a tighter phalanx of spears they form the back bone of many Greek armies and are highly sought after elsewhere.

Latin allies: The Roman Latin allies also fought in legions. Normally they were indistinguishable from Romans, but from time to time they might be reulctant to fight for one reason or another, and hence reluctant allies suffer a morale penalty.

Numidian Cavalry - these nearly naked tribesmen ride without saddles or bridles. Armed with only a small shield and some javelins they weer never the less considered some of the finest warriors of their time, skirmishing with heavier cavalry who could not catch them, raiding the flanks and rear of units, and generally creating mayhem.

Italian cavalry
Roman Cavalry
Illyrian cavalry
Spanish and Gallic cavalry
Spanish Caetrati
Spanich Scutarii
Gallic warriors

Gallic Gaestati - these men throw off their clothes to avoid being encumbered in battle. they are utterly fearless inspire terror among all who oppose them.

etc, etc

So what was the need for fantasy units again??

Oh and BTW the masks in Gladator weren't actually that bad from a historical POV - RC's might've been a bit anachronistic (ie modern), but the other ones were pretty much spot on AFAIK.

[Skomatth]

The Samnites were actually a people south of Rome who fought in wars against Rome between 343 BC and 290 but were eventually destroyed. The Romans fashioned their gladiators after warriors who already existed, the Samnite gladiator was armed quite similarly to the Samnite tribe.

*bows deeply* Thank you very much.

Well I'm sort of defending the poor developers but I mean really, gladiators on the battle field? All they'd have to do was change the name to samnites.

[Skomatth]

Later of course they started changing gladiator names from ethnic to what they actually did. e.g. Samnite--->secutor meaning chaser.

[Hakonarson]

Roman Samnite Gladiators weren't armed anything like Samnites were - rather they were armed like Romans at the time THOUGHT Samnites were There's a difference

Samnites soldiers were armed with javelins and swords, they wore helmets and sometimes greaves and rather small breastplates made up of circular plates. They fougt by throwing volleys of javelins and charging only when their enemy was disordered - quite sensibly really. Their equipment suited them to fight in and among the wooded hills and valleys of their homeland.

As you say they fought several hard wars against the Romans, their most famous victory being at Caudine Forks 321BC where they captured the entire Roman army - the Romans carelessley marched into a valley the Samnites had fortified the exit from. when the Romans discovered this they turned around & discovered the Samnites had fortified the entrance behind them too

After a few days trying to fight their way out the romans surrendered and were forced "under the yoke" as a sign of humiliation, retaining only their tunics.

They were "finally" defeated by Rome in 273BC, but many joined Phyrrus and even Hannibal 3 generations later.

Gladiators were known to fight on a couple of occasions - specifically in the hajor slave revolt Spartacus (where they threw away their gladatorial equipment as soon as they captured Roman arms), and in the armies of Otho and Vitellus in 69AD in the year of the 4 emperors.

But bearing arms and fighting for the state were jobs for freemen and citizens - not slaves Except in times of emergency of course

[CBR]

Quote[/b] (Kongamato @ April 14 2003,22:24)]Really, if you have to have such issues with this game and that it wont be your secret computerized heaven of perfect realism, then maybe you ought to quit whining and calmly slip into the night. There are probably ten people who will like the game that are willing to replace you.

Well I prefer to whine now, in a desperate hope that CA doesnt come up with a load of fantasy units to "spice up" the game, instead of waiting until the game is finished.


I like history and always look at this game as a way of recreating battles/tactics of the proper era. Ok I know its just a game so maybe not a good reason..

With "weird fantasy" units there are balance issues. Either the units suck and will never be used, which is just a waste of time for the developers, or they suddenly have an important role. Just take Lancers in MTW...a historical unit type actually, but it belongs in the late era and just look at all the complaining. Could write an essay on balance...but its late

Ok balance issues has more something to do with MP than SP and I'll just admit it right away: I buy this game for multiplayer. In SP balance is not maybe not as important but its still needed.

Maybe we wont see many units like the gladiators so maybe some of us are overreacting. I would rather just react now and not when its too late if it isnt already too late heh.

But dont worry...if I dont like this game and cant mod things to keep me happy I will not be here in this forum and bitch and whine 6-7 months after game has been released

CBR

[lonewolf371]

Well IMO they will be much like Vikings and Woodsmen in MTW, much like peasants but superior and more effective in the early ages before the seperate factions get their legions developed. Once legions become truly developed gladiators will become out of date save as a policing force, much like Urban Militia and normal peasants. Simply overreacting about a unit before you even know how it performs is quite ignorant. It was probably released the first because it was so easy to define it and its purpose, whereas to develop the Velites, Hastati, and Triarii will take more time to truly define them.

[Hakonarson]

Perhaps you should go read the description they've posted then - because it's nothing like what yuo think they will be.

Gladiators are not an early troop type - the first games are recorded in 264BC, but that's just a single fight, and for a long time they weer associated/held as a sort of funeral celebration to mark the passing of a distinguished citizen.

Good overview of the history of Gladiators

the Coloseum wasn't built until 80 AD - the first Amphitheatre wasn't built until the end of hte 2nd century BC, and in the 1st century Rome actually prohibited the construction of buildings for shows - an Amphitheatre built by Pompey in 5BC was justified as an extension of a temple.

"The first stone amphitheatre of Rome is that of Statilius Taurus, built in 29 BC somewhere in the Campus Martis, its precise location being a matter of fierce debate. It seems that wooden structures continued to be popular; in 27 AD in Fidene, just outside Rome, one of these collapsed killing 20.000 spectators (Suetonius), or killing and wounding 50.000 (Tacitus)." (from this site on the history of amphitheatres.)

Theatres were built in provincial cities up to a couple of hundred years before these were built in Rome - Eg Pompeii had 2 theatres seating 1200 and 5000 by about 250 BC - but these were for Greek plays rather than games when first built.

So Gladiators should not be an early troop type at all - they should be one that requires some sort of relatively advanced building and considerable conquest

[lonewolf371]

Check the FAQ, the game starts in 264 BCE, so gladiators would be a perfect early game unit and a police force. BTW, the game ends in 14 BCE, so basically the game goes through the conquests of the Republic and the establishment of the first emperor. I'd prefer this era to Imperial Rome as much more conquest occured and armies developed more to allow a changing game style from beginning to end.

In addition to this, the descriptions I believe are overrated and tend to simply give the unit some jazz. For instance, in the VI site it describes a unit which can't be much more than a peasant in a similar fashion.

[A Nerd]

People oftne forget that games are supposed to be fun, even sims. They become less so when people whine and point out things that shall only encompass small amounts of the game. I would still enjoy gladiator if russel crowe wore a dress during combat.

[Catiline]

Lonewolf, I hate to asy it, but your thoughts are wrong, at least factually. Gladiators might well make a good unit early in the game, if htat's how they've been implemented, but they shouldn't be there as a unit at all, apart from possibly in a spartacus scenario. Gladiators didn't fight battles, and they didn't form police forces. This isn't fantasy total war.

[Stormer]

ok lets get this sorted gladiators were not warriors as they are in the game they were entitainers and the odd time the joined up to fight for there freedom.

the only reason there in RTW is beacause it makes the game more fun.

[Nowake]

Fun?? Are you sure? I have my doubts that including gladiators nd other wonder warriors can make this game fun ... The hell with it, put Cleopatra in if you want to make it fun, even if I read that it was rather ugly