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Thread: Shimazu now rules..

  1. #1
    Member Member Khan7's Avatar
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    With all of the changes in the SP campaign, Shimazu seems to have become oddly dominant in the new 1530 campaign.. most of the guys in the east, when they are all AI, seem to get wiped out or severely hampered by minor clans (i.e. "ronin"), while me as Shimazu just goes on a veritable Blitzkrieg, quickly techs up, has no trouble maintaining sufficient army size and quality, and very early in the game has the best income, best armies, and best infrastructure. Inept Ronin and pitiful satellite provinces of eastern clans have no effect on me. It is now around 1550, I have just conquered Yamashiro and been "proclaimed" Shogun by the emporer, and I'm seriously considering just ditching the game because I know I'll roll over any further resistance from the two remaining eastern clans who have decent-sized domains but seem incabable of even mild expansion, and have for the half-decade or more..

    I would also note that the AI strategy for using archers is ineffective.. they ALWAYS leave just on skirmish, even more so than before, so if they have alot of them or they are losing the melee with their standard units and need help, they lose baaaaaaaaadly. And given the AI's extreme preference for all or near-all archer armies, this can knock down the difficulty of the entire campaign by many many notches.

    I personally dislike playing on difficulty higher than Normal, not because I don't like the challenge, but because I don't like the way in which the challenge is implemented. Skewing the combat odds makes the game tedious and bizarre, and probably messes up your sense of things for MP. I personally would like an option to start a campaign at mild to severe territory and/or army disadvantages, i.e. a campaign in which the clans AREN'T all perfectly balanced. I suppose this will be possible if they, as rumored, will provide for campaign editing and mod-ing galore in a few months or so..

    Anyway, sorry, that kinda dragged on longer than I meant it to, but one campaign issue led to another, and.. well, you see.

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    Khan7
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  2. #2

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    Khan, check out the .txt files in the game directory. Lots of settings are available to be tweaked. I'm betting somebody will come up with a TCP/IP module from the outside. Yes, the MP players will lose their secure ranking server, but it will be far more convenient for actual playing.

  3. #3

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    You are right about Shimazu ruling in the 1530 campaign. The only clan near you is Imagawa who is surrounded by Ronin and is not agressive in the East. While you are doing this the other clans are killing themselves as they are so close together. The hard part is trying to make any alliances before they kill themselves

    I have now been trying the other clans on expert to make it more difficult. The lack of Koku is a pain especially while you watch Hojo with two shitty provinces producing Monks after a few years!!!!!

    I would have preferred less of a cheat for the AI on Koku and a more agressive/intelligent AI. I am not going to hold my breath on that though.

  4. #4
    Member Member Khan7's Avatar
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    hehe, a good AI is hard to do.. to produce one for this game in the current age would take resources and expertise VASTLY out of proportion to the economic advantage for the producer, and would essentially mean you would have to go and buy your own Deep Blue and interface it to the game.

    I personally believe that the future of AI does not lie in making better SP opponents-- this model will quickly become outdated as it already practically is in an internet era that continuously becomes higher speed and higher efficiency (which will allow for progressively easier and more convenient multiplay). I believe the true future of AI will be in roles such as making competent subordinate commanders, thus making possible the revolution in the simulation of command and control that has been due for some time finally possible.

    Anyway, the development of a crude but feasible incarnation of the subordinate commanders I was talking about is probably 1-4 years away. The development of an opponent AI that can perform with true excellence in a complex game such as Shogun or any of the many other games that share its level of complexity-- probably 5-8 years off, because it will be very hard to do and I believe it will take second priority to the development of AI for other roles like I described (as multiplay gets easier and more convenient and you no longer need necessarily a good AI opponent-- I believe such a thing will bring up the rear in any upcoming AI revolution).

    Anyway, I must disclose that I'm not an insider or an expert on programming or AI, so I could be dead wrong. These are just my opinions and predictions.

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  5. #5
    Member Member Jon's Avatar
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    Does the computer still cheat then? What I mean, does he still get infinite koku on the difficult settings?

  6. #6

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    what strategy games really need is some kind of ability to program the AI ingame. A strategy game with modular AI units strung together with some kind of streamlined BASIC that would allow for user created/fan AI mods would be FANTASTIC. You could create your own monster AI opponent to battle against, and exploit your own weaknesses to improve yourself.

    Thats what we need in computer game AI.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Forward Observer's Avatar
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    Just completed my second attempt at Shimazu on hard at the 1550 start. It seemed tougher than the original game to me, but it might have something to do with the different start
    date. I used to play Shimazu on hard or expert and finished in 20 to 25 years but this time it took me 38 years. I had to restart once because I ran into the rebellion bug. I lost my Daimyo in a battle, and suddenly 20 plus provinces that had been 150% loyal all revolted in one turn.

    On my next try I ran in to two Hojo Geishas
    by 1563 and almost wet my pants. That is the earliest date I have ever seen a Geisha. The good news is that the Geishas are not quite the super duper assassins that they were in the original game. I was able to get both with ninjas before they did too much damage.

    All in all I like the X-pack, except for the rebellion bug (or feature) mentioned, and the new re-inforcement weirdness.

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    Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.



    [This message has been edited by Forward Observer (edited 08-23-2001).]
    Artillery adds dignity to what would otherwise be a vulgar brawl.

  8. #8
    Member Member Yoko Kono's Avatar
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    this has given me an idea
    surely someone shuld have thought of it ages ago
    a save game editor
    used to edit provinces owned, buildings in province and armies in provinces
    along with monies in clans pocket
    this way ,like khan7 requested, we can create our own `campaigns` were we start off say with 1 or 2 provinces with tiny armies against 6 mighty clans
    but im lazy
    the closest i get to writing the damn things is manually using the old dos debug command
    if i mess around with the save games i just the org will let me upload the `campaigns`

  9. #9
    Member Member Khan7's Avatar
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    Good news folks! It is fully possible to make your own campaigns, and I have made a comprehensive database and guide on how to do it! Contact me at gengiskan0@cs.com so I can e-mail it to you! Let the games begin!

    *notice* that was an off-topic post, so if you want to discuss it please to the mods/patches forum, where it belongs and where a thread is going on the subject.

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    Khan7
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