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Thread: Got a Question and a major Complaint

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    Member Member FearofFucy's Avatar
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    This is my first post here. I normaly do not complaint but this just got me really mad.
    Yesterday I was playing this guy,who by the way is pretty high up in the ranking list.
    I got all of his troops routed or killed. He only had his 1 Honor 1 Archers left which by the way was his General. After trying to chase his General down, he ESC on me,knowing he is going to loose. Now why is it if he ESC on me, knowing he is going to loose, gets then the victory????? Someone please tell me this. Why,why,why???
    I mean if this is possible that would be an easy way to get to the top of the ranking list.
    Know what got me angry is , I am hearing from other players that the same person, who I fought the battle with yesterday, does this all the time and thats how he got into the ranking where he is now. Please someone tell me that it is not true when someone is hosting a game and he decided to ESC on you, the Host gets the victory.
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  2. #2
    Member Member Avenging Warrior's Avatar
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    Yeah, damn cheaters... all you can do about it is mark them down on your "black list" and not play with them anymore - as well as alert everyone else about it (such us on this forum - give us his name) so we can add all the cheaters we can find to our own "black lists". Better yet, it would be cool to make one on this site!

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  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    While I agree some weird Sh%$T has been going on on-line lately, I'm sure the dojo doesn't want us posting on cheaters

    What I don't understand is you say he escaped out- then how did he get the win? We've been told that escaping simply results in a draw if the host escapes, so how is he winning?
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

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    Member Member Widda's Avatar
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    Yep, I understand your pain as over the last 3 days Ive lost 9 games to drops. Unfortunately we can not tell if these drops were caused by tech difficulties or ESC'ing.
    Thou it seems to me those who are having tech probs will give you a rematch with you hosting, if you can...
    Just my 2 bob, Widda.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member Zen Blade's Avatar
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    I agree that there should not be a blacklist here. However, I would like to know what the name was and why you think he pressed escape. (not that I doubt you Fucy as I have no reason to, but to just make sure you have a substantiated claim)

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  6. #6
    Insomniac and tired of it Senior Member Slyspy's Avatar
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    I believe that if a player drops (by accident or by ESCaping) then the defender automatically gets credited with the win. This is often, but not necessarily, the host since defender is the default option. Or am I wrong?

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  7. #7

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    Fearoffucy: I know someone else this same thing happened to within the last few days. Wheather caused by an ESC, an intentional disconnect or a bad connection, it's a major problem with the way the game has been implemented. You have to always host to avoid it. People like me who can't host are behind the eight ball. I'm on cable modem, choose low LAT games, and still experience a lot of drops. BTW, are you from Winthrop, MA? If so, we're in the same town!

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    Member Member Methabaron's Avatar
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    Gentlemen,

    If you want to discuss on honour, rank control, ESC and drops please visit the thread at http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000177.html
    "The Shogun" asked for feedback on the issue of rank control and honour (as if we had not already posted long about it before , oh well) and a thread was started for that.

    In short my opinion is that ESC should be given ALWAYS a loss. And drops should ONLY make the game to be cancelled. We can never know if the drop was due to real bad connection or unpluggers. The game should be improved to recognize ESCapers and drops. Other games in the market can do so I dont see why STW should be an exception. The game should also show the number of drops a player has along with the honour at the chat lobby. Knowing how many times a player has dropped can be a good motivation for unpluggers to stop doing so since nobody will play them. An honourable player that simply has a crappy connection and drops all the time can prove his innocence just by behaving honourably... after all we always know who the honourable ones are.

    Metha


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  9. #9
    Member Member ShadowKill's Avatar
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    when you hit ESC you do not get a win or a loss it goes down as not complete just as if you were hosting and then someone comes into your game and then leaves when he is picking his troops the ESC button is only good to prevent a loss not to get a win

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  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Quote I'm sure the dojo doesn't want us posting on cheaters[/QUOTE]

    It's obvious that ESC'ers are a serious problem in Shogun multiplay + we totally encourage dicussion regarding this issue on a conceptual level. However this is not a flame board and we don't want persons being chastised/slandered here. Fearoffucy didn't name names + his post is totally on the level, no problem.

    When this ESC issue first arose months ago there was a huge push to "cover it up" so as not to give wayward personalaties any bright ideas about cheating or how to do it; however I'd say at this point the cat is well and truely out of the bag. Hence there is no reason not to discuss it on a conceptual level; (esp if as Methabaron we do so with the intention of finding a solution to the problem).

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  11. #11
    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    One reason for not making a blacklist is that false claims of cheating can be made.

    Also, scoring ESCs as losses (which I support) will not stop a cheater who simply wants to avoid a loss. A player can purposely disconnect from a game as well.


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  12. #12
    Member Member ShadowKill's Avatar
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    This is a problem that will plauge us untill the end of time there is not a resonable way to correct it So Get a notepad and write down the people that you think cheat and then you do not play them. I have a list of names that date back to the 3rd day after the release of the game

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  13. #13
    Member Member FearofFucy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Puzz3D:
    Fearoffucy: I know someone else this same thing happened to within the last few days. Wheather caused by an ESC, an intentional disconnect or a bad connection, it's a major problem with the way the game has been implemented. You have to always host to avoid it. People like me who can't host are behind the eight ball. I'm on cable modem, choose low LAT games, and still experience a lot of drops. BTW, are you from Winthrop, MA? If so, we're in the same town![/QUOTE]

    Yes I am from from Wintrop, MA. Cool
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  14. #14

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    Fearoffucy: I think ShadowKill may be right about ESCing not counting as a completed game. If you want to try some tests, you can host and then ESC on me, and then I'll try ESCing as the joiner. I don't care if I get losses logged trying this. I'd like to know for sure how it works. My online Shogun name is Yuuki Sanada.

    A bit of a coincidence both being from such a small town considering how few people are playing Shogun online. I put Boston as my location because I figured nobody would know where Winthrop was located.

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  15. #15
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    glad we got all that straightened out, then.

  16. #16
    Member Member Methabaron's Avatar
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    Tachikaze,

    That is exactly why I ALSO recommended to keep track of the disconnects along with the honour score and make it visible at the chat lobby.
    Quoting myself (am I something or what?):

    Quote The game should be improved to recognize and differentiate ESCapers and drops. Other games in the market can do so I dont see why STW should be an exception. The game should also show the number of drops a player has along with the honour at the chat lobby. Knowing how many times a player has dropped can be a good motivation for unpluggers to stop doing so since nobody will play them. An honourable player that simply has a crappy connection and drops all the time can prove his innocence just by behaving honourably... after all we always know who the honourable ones are.[/QUOTE]

    ESC as I said should be considered a loss automatically. And in the case of a drop, the game should be atitomatically cancelled.

    Metha

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    [This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 11-28-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 11-28-2000).]

    [This message has been edited by Methabaron (edited 11-28-2000).]
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  17. #17
    Member Member ShadowKill's Avatar
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    This is a problem that will plauge us untill the end of time there is not a resonable way to correct it So Get a notepad and write down the people that you think cheat and then you do not play them. I have a list of names that date back to the 3rd day after the release of the game.

    ONE MORE TIME FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DO NOT COMPREHEND.

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    [This message has been edited by ShadowKill (edited 11-28-2000).]
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  18. #18
    Member Member FeartheolD's Avatar
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    This really pisses me off as well.

    All these sad losers who need to win at any costs.

    I have looked at my recent record 7 or 8 defeats. In the last 50 games.

    Over 30 games still being played (loser disconnects).

    Thats what it should be called.

    I have worked out in the last 30 games, I have won 23 lost 4 and three drops at the start.

    But guess what in the last 30 games all my loses have been recorded! oh! yes! all recorded.... Why? is it there are never any games still being played when I lose !!!!!

    I'll tell you why, cause, I dont press escape before the honour screen appears. Lots of losers do RWL.

    Less than a third of my wins are recorded!!!!.


    Either EA hates me? (probably true only my wife and kids love me)

    I am increadibilly unfortunate with my connection to the net?

    Or ain't we got a bunch of cheating bas-turds playing online.

    Well thats my rant will have to take a sip of herbal tea now.



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  19. #19
    Member Member Avenging Warrior's Avatar
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    Yeah, same thing goes for me. Most of my wins were never recorded. And when I look at my logfiles, almost all of them say "USER QUIT BATTLE", while that's complete crap! The only time I don't fight a battle to the finish is either if the game drops me, I drop because of immense lag (in which case I notify my opponent in advance), or if my ISP disconnects me.
    Oh, and the question about mentioning names arose because of my suggestion to make a blacklist. I understand your anti-flame concerns, I just thought of it as a good way to discourage people from cheating(the money cheat, which is also a major issue) and ESCaping.

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  20. #20
    Member Member ShadowKill's Avatar
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    well i am sorry to here that Old I believe I wa the frist person to relieze what was going on when someone hit ESC and i yelled hard and long and Then I gave up. but even if you were to get rid of the esc there are other ways that you can get a win. and that way is even more dishonourable. but I do not see a dissconnect as a loss because i think that everyone one of us has had a game were we ethier got disconnected from the server or the internet. and I don't see a way the game could reconize the diffrence between the Esc and the dissconect But if there were a way to implement that I would say that the EA/CA/DT should put that in.

    But beware there are some of the newbie's that do not know about the esc thing so they do just like they do when they join a game when they see that it is hopeless to fight anymore they will hit esc and not know what they did to you. that was always the problem in the begining. now everyone should be getting to know this and you would think people would quit doing it but still there are people out there that can not win. so they resort to this kind of stuff.

    And secondly Show me proof that when someone hits ESC that you end up with a loss on your record because I do not think it goes down as a loss as i said earlier.

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  21. #21
    Member Member ShadowKill's Avatar
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    oh yeah the money cheat someone use this on me i would like to see it aw hell you show me that there is really one out there and i will believe it but untill then it is just like UFO's. A fairy tale

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  22. #22

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    I've never seen the koku cheat personally. Either whoever knows about it is being very careful or it simply doesn't exist.

    On ESCs:
    If the host presses ESC, no result is recorded. This CAN be useful in team games when players drop, allowing the host to cancel the game without either side suffering a loss.

    If a client (player who joins the host's game) drops, for whatever reason, they will lose. Remember, this prevents players manually disconnecting themselves in order to avoid defeat.

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  23. #23
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    no koku cheat exists for MP, unless the person went into their game and messed with a file, but then they could never host a game, since the price differences would become obvious.

    as for writing down a list of people, it seems a bit foolish to me. people change names all the time (see a dif thread for the rundown on that) and i dont know about the rest of you, but it really does a while to get a game going, so an opponent is an opponent, unless he tries to play me twice in a row after pulling that stunt.

  24. #24
    Member Member Avenging Warrior's Avatar
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    Ok, then tell me how I just played a 1000 koku game and my opponent had 16 honor 2 no-dachi units. My math may not be that good, but this is ridiculous. And I've heard many peoople talk about this sort of thing in the past. I don't know how the hell they do it (and I don't want to, I'd probably be tempted to use it), so don't ask me to use it on you.

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  25. #25
    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    Methabaron,

    Quote The game should be improved to recognize and differentiate ESCapers and drops. Other games in the market can do so I dont see why STW should be an exception. The game should also show the number of drops a player has along with the honour at the chat lobby. Knowing how many times a player has dropped can be a good motivation for unpluggers to stop doing so since nobody will play them. An honourable player that simply has a crappy connection and drops all the time can prove his innocence just by behaving honourably... after all we always know who the honourable ones are.[/QUOTE]

    A masterful quote.

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  26. #26

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    What AW said is obvious if you get someone like that you do not play them again.
    But what has happened to me is that i could not be 100% sure if the other guy cheated. He had more units than me. (that is OK) But he outbattled my units 1to1 as well. Now he might have just been a brilliant player or a guy with more units and higher honour( in the game sense only).
    This to me seems even more dangerous as i said i cannot be sure.


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  27. #27
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    it amazes me, Avenging Warrior how no one else on this forum has ever thought to post this complaint before, ever! And the only posts with this problem seem to be with you! You're telling me that you've played so many games and on almost every occasion your opponent has done this to you? Yet I've played many many - and the Fear Clan have racked up hundreds and yet this has failed to happen to any of us?
    Stop lying and making a big issue out os something that seesm to not exist unless you say it does.
    If there really is such widespread cheating on koku, then I'm sure the veteran users on here will prove otherwise. But so far, no one of any worth has mentioned this.


  28. #28
    Member Member Hitodama's Avatar
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    About the ESC/lost connection issue.
    I was online last night.
    I joined a game. The host was attacker, I was defender. There where lots of lag. I was about to make the killing flank....then, lost connection. I don't know if it was ESC or lost conn. (Magy's log reader says lost conn.) I had 19 kills while the other guy had 60 kills. But the thing that puzzled me was that I won??
    Now how can that be?

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  29. #29

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    Can you find out from the host what he saw on his end? I've experienced two different ways to loose connection as the joiner, and I suspect there are more than just two ways for this to happen. In a timed game, the defender wins if he has any units still on the field at the end of the time period. Maybe, to the host machne, it looked like the battle had ended with you as defender still present.

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  30. #30
    Member Member FeartheolD's Avatar
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    This is not fiction it does happen people press esc before the end of the game when they are losiing look at my battle file you will see lots and lots of unfinished games on this records I have only had 2 or 3 real drops.

    either there is some thing wrong with the EA server or lots of Bar Stewards don't like to get beat

    None of these dropped games were losses for me either.


    But enough of that aren't the cloud formations lovely in the game I'm sure i can see a big elephant over totomi when i am attacking have you seen any other animals in the clouds?

    Keep you exits clear and your needles clean

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