You can play Mongol vs. Mongol - but only in SP....

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Play the mongol campaign - the first year you get a good boost in koku - the first turn start on some tranquil gardens near the mongol landing zone. (Not too close or you might lose the province!)

Build a couple of emissaries and send em to bribe the mongols.
you should have enough cash for one army, maybe 2. Use them with what you already had to slow the horde tremendously - allowing both reinforcements and money to build up - rinse and repeat.
Twas fun fighting the horde with their own guys - or even better - a mixed force LOL.
Talk about a slaughter - I took 4 MHC's and flanked an attacking force - pinned em between the MHC's and my xbowmen on a hill...
There was nothing left afterwards.

Now - a thought - should bribing mongol armies be an option? I like it - but some out there may have a problem with it historically. Feedback is welcome.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Khan7]

Bribing Mongol armies is a LOAD, lol! Sounds like fun though!

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Khan7

[hach]

Well there are many examples of samurai(leaders not footsoldiers)turning traitor even with all their stories of loyalty etc'so don't see why a mongol commander could'nt turn traitor too?

Hach

[Khan7]

Well, lets see.. language difference, culture difference, general feelings of mutual hatred and disgust.. the list goes on and on. Plus the fact that I don't believe a *Mongol* army has ever turned traitor-- just look at what they did to their ENEMIES who resisted their will, I don't wanna think about what they'd do to a traitor (and that's another thing-- they wouldn't cross over because they would have no reason to believe that their Khan wouldn't win the war and come after them).

Anyway, all of those reasons. Japs bribing Japs in Sengoku Jidai is a completely different situation.

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Khan7

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Well, it may be "non-historical", but it sure does give you the ability to really throw the horde for a loop!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Shiro]

If you throw enough money at them, it makes perfect sense! Maybe to bribe the Mongols you should have to pay more money because of the above mentioned differences.

MHC are the most scary unit. While playing as Mongols, I use these guys as much as possible and they are amazing! So many kills!

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Bribing Mongols is expensive - It appears to be based on the same "economic" model as MP - mongol units generally cost more. Thats why after the first harvest you may have 14-20k koku and still only have enough to bribe 1 or 2 armies - and these are armies of 6-10 units, not full groups.
But - if you think about it - its ok since not only are you gaining strength by x# of men, your also weakening the horde by the same amount - meaning double impact.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[This message has been edited by BSM_Skkzarg (edited 08-23-2001).]

[Khan7]

I must respectfully disagree, Shiro :-)

Ever hear about how throwing money at something won't always make it work?

This is especially true with Mongols, who tend to be a more stoic bunch. Plus, why do they want money, when they could have a chance to live? That's right, as a Mongol one would have no capacity to believe their Khan would not win and come and hunt them down, as I said before, meaning a gruesome fate for you and any loved ones they happen to track down. Money is no good if you and all your family is dead :-)

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Khan7

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Khan7 - your statement of "throwing money at something doesnt always fix it" is the best - sounds like me talking to a liberal friend of mine! ROFL!!!!
Historically your probably correct in that the a mongol leader would hesitate greatly before betraying his kahn. However, I dont think money is the real payoff here - I prefer to think of it as the guy thinking that with the support of the japanese and the extra change now jingling in his pocket, maybe he can replace the kahn with... himself!

Also note - that just as high honor Japanese generals are harder to convince - so are high honor mongol generals.

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Khan7]

Which brings back the main issue-- Mongol generals had an unmitigated disgust for all other peoples, and on top of that were not very creative politically. So though one could imagine a particularly crafty Mongol general biting his tounge and USING an "inferior people" to try and seize power, we can hardly imagine even the most talented of Mongol generals thinking this up. Plus the fact that it wouldn't help them politically, the Japs have no real military power except in their own country at this time, so you would end up with a poor depressed old Mongol stuck in an impotent nation with a culture he despises, longing but unable to return to the great Mongol life he once lived!

And as far as lower honor generals are concerned, none of them would be crafty enough to see the potential benefits in defection. And there is also the problem that it is very unlikely the soldiers in such an army would fight for you if you did this, or that some more patriotic subordinate wouldn't call foul and lead them all off, only now with YOUR head atop the banner (and being used as a drinking cup, bowling ball, etc. hehe).

Now I realize this is all mostly a tounge in cheek thread, but I thought it a worthy goal to just set the historical record straight :-)

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Khan7

[Khan7]

Yes, *duh*, I certainly will join you for 5 kegs of sake and 2 geishas *duh*. *duh* it seems that your *duh* great nation with its invincible navy and *duh* vast manpower reserves would be the perfect launching spot for my quest for dominance! *duh* *duh*

It would take a very *STUPID* Mongol to go this way, LOL.

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Khan7

[MagyarKhans Cham]

bribing \Mongols is stupid since we beliueve the world is given to us, so also the gold it contains.

better submit, give them the money and u will live happily after

[A Nerd]

Why not add extra japanese clans that cal ally themselves with each other or the Mongols?...Huh? Huh? Good idea?

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Magyar - ROFL!!!
Sorry mate - but if you expect Skkzarg Hojo to roll over and let you take over, your sadly mistaken. I will arm every peasant, burn every province, and steal every second ply of toilet paper to keep your horde from taking Japan! ROFL!!!!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."