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Thread: Anyone want to enlighten a newbie?

  1. #1

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    Yep! First, and perhaps foremost,... how does the art of devide and conquor work. I have my nice fat army, growing in one turf. Why, because, the Oda have two teritories gathering fat armies to invade mine. In case you are still wondering, the province is Harima, and I am Mori.

    Solution one, divide the army, and invade one province. I have a choice of invading a poor province (yeah!) or invading a rich province, one that inevitably gives feeds a lot to troops on the field that I must face. The problem is of course, there is a river. Even if the river was not a strategical difficulty, then I must divide the forces, which leaves my province open for invasion. Where is the balance in dividing and conquoring, while protecting your clans arse.

    Second question:

    Where can newbies play online with other newbies?

  2. #2
    Member Member Steve Macduff's Avatar
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    In my limited experience I can give you a bit of advice. Take half your troops and pull back from the province you are in now, leaving all your archers and some cheap polearm troops (sam or ara) to protect them from an all out rush. Now, the enemy should attack you army, so here is when it gets tricky.

    Place all your armies at beginning very close the border on high ground with your archers to their back to the wall and your defending cheap guys just in front of them. Then begin the fight and as thee enmemy gets closer pound him with arrows until he either rushs or you run out of arrows, then run out of the province without taking any casualties.

    Next turn, tak the half you removed and the half that just fought and move them both into the country and attack at full strength, you should have hurt him bad with the archers on the first round (aim for his expensive units and other archers when you are doing the above strat). Now, beat him down with your superior, full strength force. Now you are back where yous arted with a few less units and a large part of his boarder guard decimated. Launch a counterattack and you should find the bridge much easier now =)

    Hope you could follow that
    Steve
    "Think of how stupid the avrage person is, then remember 50% of people are even dumber."

  3. #3

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    Except that if he invade my turf, and I abandon the area after causing him mass pain, then I will loose some valuable structures. Those themselves are almost as expensive as a cheap army.

  4. #4
    Member Member Steve Macduff's Avatar
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    That is true, wasn't an issue for me when it happend because I wasalready in invaded territory.
    "Think of how stupid the avrage person is, then remember 50% of people are even dumber."

  5. #5
    Member Member Grim's Avatar
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    Take 1 unit of cheap YA, invade one of his province (this unit's job is to make Oda's army stay in that province) you will not attack with this unit but retreat it (Click retreat on stategic map).
    Then take your army and invade the province you want.
    Rinse, repeat.

    ------------------
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes cannons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my cannons)
    -Trad. libre
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
    -Trad. libre

  6. #6

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    Alrighty then. Anynow how those Giesha's have Diamyo seeking built into them. I had to run like hell from four Geishas that started to make a pilgrimage. Umm.. They knew exactly where my diamyo was.

  7. #7

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    A couple of pointers here Raging...

    First - If he has 2 QUALITY armies sitting there building up, it becomes a matter of time before the AI WILL invade - so you want to hit him first, or make him hit when he is is not truly ready! The question is WHERE you hit, or how to draw him into action. From the tactical description - your kind of stuck with little choice at all. If you hit the "poor" province and win - the surviving enemy will regroup in the "rich" river province, meaning you will then face a larger force with a defensive tactical advantage. In addition, you will then be pressed to defend BOTH of your provinces from this larger force - creating a serious overextension in your lines. So lets take out that "Rich" province, shall we? At least that will give you some additional resources to rebuild quickly with.

    First create a few (I use 2-4) Yari Ashigaru units - these are going to be your arrow magnets. Divide your army - leaving 5 or 6 units "home" as defenders. A good balance is 1 Yari Samurai for 2 Archers. Invade the River Province with everything else you have - and if you have over 16 units in your invasion force, make sure you have the yari ashigaru in your initial battlefield team.

    Now - set up like your gonna defend, archers strung wide to cover the bridge, backed by samurai. Set one ashigaru at the bridge in loose formation, keeping the other peasants well off to one side. Tell the ashigaru to move across the bridge, and the instant they start getting shot at have them stop! That will stop them on the bridge, without drawing the enemy spearmen forward. Your ashigaru will die under enemy arrows, and eventually rout. (The loose formation helps them last)

    Once they rout, repeat the process quickly with another group of peasants. Doing this will deplete enemy arrows, so that your decent units can cross unhindered.
    As soon as the enemy is out of missiles, move the remaining Ashigaru and CHARGE them across the bridge - make sure they are RUNNING - as your men cross the enemy will bring up his spearmen to block - and the ashigaru are slightly faster than samurai in armor. Have them charge the approaching yari groups. As soon as they begin their crossing, order your normal yari sams to cross at a normal pace, and set them in a line a bit forward of the bridge. The Ashigaru will hit and hold the enemy spears just long enough to allow your real troops to cross over and get set. The peasants will rout back (which as they are peasants wont hurt your samurai at all) and the enemy spears will engage yours. Keep your archers quiet until they have clear shots, as you want to avoid friendly fire. Since your line is now set, us can wrap the "wings" in and flank or rear the attackers, or if they are split on the edged, allow your center units to move forward and then flank the attackers. Either way, somewhere in your line will be a unit with the ability to hit the enemy from a side. Try and keep at least one unit free to charge incoming archers that will sometimes try to enter the fray. (Cav is good for this if available as it can scoot around the battle line quickly and hit the archers from the side or rear as they charge.) At this point the enemy is taking a beating and is likely to start running away. You can let your men chase after them, if they are not too tired. Again, cav comes in handy here as it chasing units keeps them all from regrouping. If your unable to rout them off the map, reform your line, and move your archers in a line out front. Advance on the remaining enemy and most will break under arrow fire, allowing your sams to rest and walk. Just chase the remainder away and you should be fine.

    The only problem you may encounter is if the enemy has a huge number of men - more than 16 units. In that case, the units that replaced the routed yari ashigaru can hunt them down and take them out. Always do this with 2 units, as that guarantees your ability to flank the solitary enemy with one of them.

    Now that you "OWN" the river province, consolidate your forces (filling up units as needed with men from other units), especially the archers. Leave 3-4 archers and 1 (or 2) sams at the river and balance the rest of the forces, or if you have enough men, attack the "poor" province the following season. With the above tactic you likely will have scored many enemy dead that you will not have to face in a following attack.

    Remember, once they start running, the more you kill on this battlefield, the less you have to kill on a future one. If your extremely lucky, a reinforcing yari sam or cav will arrive on the enemy's side, and if it does string it wide and let any routed men run into that line - they wont make it past - meaning less units and less men next season.

    Also - if you can, hit the enemy general with a ninja - the morale penalty is STEEP! 8-)

    Happy conquering!


    ------------------
    BSM_Skkzarg
    "A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
    BSM_Skkzarg
    "ARG when I'm Happy, ARG when I'm Sad, ARG when I'm good or bad. ARG!"
    "ARG to port! ARG to starboard! Arg from stem to stern! ARG!"

  8. #8

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    hmmmmmmm...Well, i prefer Harima to be my front line. Tamba isn't that great to defend, especially when you consider the fact arrow ballistics suck at killing things coming up hills to attack you. Low Lands are my preferred combat zone, since you can ensure a flat kill zone directly to your front. (some maps are great for this cause the computer sometimes decides never to envelop on certain map situations. wierd)

    I'd suggest you use Harima as your linchpin on the eastern front while you attack to your west and take the green dudes. (assuming you've mopped the floor with takeda already *g*)
    My preferred defensive position in Harima (Four archer troops in tight 3 row groups with Four Yari's in loose 4 row groups in front/flank...Ashigaru in reserve; Since you are mori get a naginata front and center asap, with monks/nodashi as reserve...Cavalry are great for mopping up routers/shocktroops; Ninja are great for killing Kensai - while Kensai you can use as a linchpin defense)

    As for Divide and Conquer? You really need an "extra" army to conduct offensive maneuvers...Hard to do at the best of times. Good luck.
    River provinces are great to attack/defend. Really easy once you've got the mantra down. "proper planning prevents piss poor performance" *g*...(have lots of archers and sucker the enemy into range by halting a troop ON the bridge in tight/holdformation/holdground)

    Tamba? hmmmmmm...Don't recall this map before
    Cause i usually play the snot nosed Oda

  9. #9

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    Grim: OMFG! that's soooooo cheap! lol! cheep cheep!

  10. #10

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    What is cheap? The tactic I proposed?
    If you feel so, thats your right, but historically it was viable and there are numerous instances of peasants being sacrificed so that the Samurai units would be able to fight fresh and without impediment.

    To be honest, TripleR claims "newbie" status and this tactic is one of the easier to pull off for a river win. There are others - that are not as "cheap" but require alot more time in battle to pull off effectively. Things like "My Daimyo the Rabbit", that pulls the yari spearmen into a chase while the body of your troops cross unhindered except for arrow fire. The problem with these is that its very difficult to keep the Rabbit from routing, and if your Diamyo routs early your going to be hurting, especially since a rout often means he routs into an enemy unit - most of the time which is spears.....

    As time goes on, new players will learn some of the tricks, and undoubtedly come up with new ones as well. Until then, we help as we can so that they will continue to enjoy the game as we do.

    ------------------
    BSM_Skkzarg
    "A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
    BSM_Skkzarg
    "ARG when I'm Happy, ARG when I'm Sad, ARG when I'm good or bad. ARG!"
    "ARG to port! ARG to starboard! Arg from stem to stern! ARG!"

  11. #11
    Member Member Grim's Avatar
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    Cheap but legal.
    Consider: "You, my most thrusted *ahem* YA taisho, will take your valiant men and will go in that province and make the most noise/dust/fire you can while I lead the rest of MY troop in this province"

    BTW have you notice that everyone who've helped you come from Crazy Canuckland!
    Where are you from BSM_Skkzarg?

    ------------------
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes cannons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my cannons)
    -Trad. libre
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
    -Trad. libre

  12. #12

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    I am from the US. The South..... and yes we are a different country ROFL!


    ------------------
    BSM_Skkzarg
    "A mind is a terrible thing to taste."
    BSM_Skkzarg
    "ARG when I'm Happy, ARG when I'm Sad, ARG when I'm good or bad. ARG!"
    "ARG to port! ARG to starboard! Arg from stem to stern! ARG!"

  13. #13

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    Quote Originally posted by BSM_Skkzarg:
    I am from the US. The South..... and yes we are a different country ROFL!
    [/QUOTE]

    Amen Brother!


  14. #14
    Member Member celtiberoijontychi's Avatar
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    If you are in Harima and wnat to attack the rivr province, you better let a good defense in Harima, cos' if the enemyinvades you and you loose the attack, the whole army will be lost! You better take the ronin island first, it's easy and will make the enemy nervous..
    Gloria y honor al Clan Celtiberos
    Glory and Honour to Clan Celtiberos

  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BSM_Skkzarg:
    I am from the US. The South..... and yes we are a different country ROFL!
    [/QUOTE]

    Woohoo! There is another! I am not alone! YEEHAAAW!

    Attacking rivers... quite interesting challenge... Use pi... uh... never mind... can't give away secret, as it is undefeated in MP attacks on river provinces...

    But, for SP, try assaulting provinces in the vicinity of the river province to draw him out of his stronghold. If you can trap his pig-dogs in a castle, leave a small garrison and his fat, lazy river-guarding pig-stickers will move in to 'save their day'. Make sure you attack the river when he does this relief effort and you can catch him with his pants down... it'll be like taking candy from a baby!




    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  16. #16
    Member Member Lord Aeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by BSM_Skkzarg:
    I am from the US. The South..... and yes we are a different country ROFL!


    [/QUOTE]

    Hmmmm...
    Then why are all y'all country folks so embarrassed of it? Everyone else has their locations right under their name... except for the southerners...

    Don't worry, if i was from 'round there, i wouldn't tell anyone either!

    *getting a vision of secret southern pointy-hooded societes* j/k

    ------------------
    "You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."
    "You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

  17. #17

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    Quote Originally posted by Lord Aeon:
    *getting a vision of secret southern pointy-hooded societes* j/k
    [/QUOTE]

    Why do y'all mean those ones headquartered up in Yankeeland? You know, where most of their members are?


    Hmmm, I better let this one drop in the interests of PC.


  18. #18
    Member Member Grim's Avatar
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    OOOPS!

    I think I've started another civil war.

    *moving our total blue helmet canadian armed forces of 23 soldiers and 2 officers*

    "OK guys, just tell us where to stand to keep peace to both sides"

    ------------------
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes cannons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my cannons)
    -Trad. libre
    "Je vous repondrai par la bouche de mes canons"
    -Frontenac
    (I will answer you with the blast of my canons)
    -Trad. libre

  19. #19
    karoshi Senior Member solypsist's Avatar
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    just a quick answer to the original question, and a strategy to help get by (no doubt you're way past that point but what the hell..)

    if the defending army (AI controlled) is slightly larger than the attacking army by more than two units, then the defending province always goes looking for the attacker. You can use this knowledge to invade provinces with large armies (just make sure you have some experienced troops). Invade, then take up a defensive position, preferably on a large hill; you'll have most of the advabtages and should be able to win the battle. If there are too many enemy, then customize your force to cause lots of damage and then retreat (horse cav, etc.)

  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Meez ignorant on certain things... like adding my location below my name, including pictures in my post like some of y'all douz, and... and... Heck, I just figur'd if y'all say where youz from, then youz ain't in da South. If y'er a good ole boy, then yee'd have no need to put a locasun under y'er name.

    * Reaches for brand new box of Ramen Noodles at the Qwik-E Mart... looks around to see if the clerk is looking... 5,673 miles away, under 100 feet of water-sodden dirt, his original head, now decomposed, starts drooling over the fresh noodles...! *



    [This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 08-28-2001).]
    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member Vanya's Avatar
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    Oh... and for the newbie enlightenment, let me share these words of wisdom:

    "The desires of the flesh are the root of all human suffering. Violence is the reflection of a tortured soul. Strive to live a life void of all pleasureable acts and fight the cravings that seduce your humble body and yee shall free yourself of the burden of pain. When inevitable conflicts arouse weak-minded emotions, make sure you follow the course of non-violence and non-confrontational doctrine, or you risk plummetting yourself into the chaos of pain. Only then, shall the path to enlightenment emerge before thee; but it is a road paved with thorns, and is adorned by the blood of those that failed before you."

    OK, now that you know everything I know, I must go find me some geishas!



    [Sips sake, eats popcorn]

  22. #22
    Member Member Lord Aeon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally posted by Algesan:
    Why do y'all mean those ones headquartered up in Yankeeland? You know, where most of their members are?
    [/QUOTE]

    Oh yeah, i know exactly what you mean. I live in Ohio, lol. Some of these folks are... ummm... special.

    ------------------
    "You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."
    "You have offended my family, and you have offended a Shaolin temple."

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