Hojo vs Mongols: From the Hojo Perspective

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

I'm playing the Mongol campaign as the Hojo (expert level). Here's what I've found...

After the Mongol took 1/2 of Kyushu and two of the western provinces of Honshu, I pretty much stopped their progress. I got my daimyo and generals worth a damn over there, whipped the rebels into line, and began picking off their lower ranking generals with ninja.

I then began rolling the Horde back with ashi crossbowman backed up by high honor archers in turn backed up by Yari Samurai. It only took about 8 years, but they were about to get kicked off Honshu and pushed into the northern provinces of Kyushu...

Then what happens? The Mongols land north of Kyoto...

Just how far can they land? A quick look at the map shows that they would have had to have sailed about 200 (make that 400 - checked a better map) nautical miles across the Japan Sea. I hadn't realized the Mongols were such mariners.

Needless to say, the tide of the battle sure has turned.

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The Buddha is a gyoza. If you find the Buddha, eat him.

[This message has been edited by jskirwin@yahoo.com (edited 09-04-2001).]

[theforce]

Yes that was a nasty suprise mate. I got all my army where the heat was one and the mongols lander at the back of my army getting provinces and stuff like that. Also without ports it takes ages to reach em and fight em cause the tend to move all the time

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Don't use only honour, use theforce, too.
http://lod.fateback.com

[Anssi Hakkinen]

Defeating the Mongols is a project. It pays to build ports and infrastructure to get troops where they're needed quickly. It also pays to maintain a "primary front" and rear area armies as soon as you can afford it. Giving ground where forced to and stopping them where needed, that's the key to success.

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"When on the battlefield, if you try not to let others take the lead and have the sole intention of breaking into the enemy lines, then you will manifest martial valour. This fact has been passed down by the elders. Furthermore, if you are slain in battle, you should be resolved to have your corpse facing the enemy."
- Yamamoto Tsunetomo: Hagakure

[solypsist]

landing just north of Kyoto is as far as I've seen them appear. but now you know just where'll pop up next go around.

[ishikawa2]

other posts have indicated seeing the Mongols land as far away as Etchigo...

[Ii Naomasa]

I started keeping a slightly-more-than token force in most of the upper coastal provinces because of these carefree landings. If you've been doing a number on the Mongols on Kyushu, their reinforcements (although composed of Heavy Cav) are usually low in numbers and a good defensive minded force can often hold off most 'landings'. You don't need to heavily defend every province. Every other one works nearly as well. Your main goal is to not allow the landing force a couple of turns to capture undefended provinces and therefore get more reinforcements the following year. Even if they take the landing province, if you hit them hard the following turn and prevent them to get any further, it'll help in the long run.

As Anssi-san points out, ports help, since you can waste less time and money building armies for every two or three coastal provinces and just have reactionary forces.

The Korean sailors that the Mongols employed weren't too shabby as naval men (as their descendants would show Toyotomi's invasion centuries later). While traveling the greater distance would seem a bit ridiculous, it isn't too difficult to imagine that landing a few troops in various places to cause chaos among the Japanese defenders would be a logical strategy had the invasions were as prolonged as the add-on proposes.

[Kraellin]

i would also think that the same arguement used in talking about seafaring japanese from port to port makes sense here also. you're talking about an entire YEAR here between mongol reinforcements, so a few hundred miles is nothing. even if they came every season, it would still amount to almost nothing.

K.


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I'm sorry, but i never apologize.

[Hosakawa Tito]

When giving ground early in the campaign,I find it pays to demolish the training facilities in Satsuma and Hizen provinces on the western island,you won't be able to hold them long anyway.That way you get the koku to use elsewhere,and deny the mongols some of the pillage they will take from you.Make sure you also build a teahouse in Tajima and start cranking out those shinobi.Send them into the western provinces to start revolts in any lands that the mongols have recently conquered.You get free troops that way,and keep the mongols busy.Playing as the mongols,I've had a small reenforcement army land in Dewa.I would develope Hitachi's armoury and crank out some troops to guard this rear area.

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[This message has been edited by Hosakawa Tito (edited 09-05-2001).]

[clink]

Was playing against the Mongols on expert and had them bottled up pretty good in the west,winning all my battles,wearing them down.
Then low and behold,a landing far behind me in the east.
Had barely any units back to stop them.

Talk about having your soft under belly cut,spilling your guts on the floor.

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

Redid the campaign yet forgot about the shinobi (Thanks for the reminder Hosokawa-san)!

Pushing the Mongols up from Kyushu, have regained all but top & topright provinces of Kyushu. However I cannot get the Heavy Cav out of far West-SW Honshu province (they do nasty things to anything I throw at them offensively). I've sent an heir with 5 wins under his belt to general the armies in the province North of Yamamoto, and have built up armies from Western Honshu to the formerly rebel (monk producing province - god I wish I had a map) province on the Japan Sea. Nothing big but at least they're upgraded. I expect the horde soon.

Any ideas on nailing the heavy cav? They do "the ginsu" on my Yari Samurai and I haven't been able to get enough of my own HCs to bear against the province.

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The Buddha is a gyoza. If you find the Buddha, eat him.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Skewering Mongol heavy cav can be tough. The keys are the same for them as they are for other cav units. Spears can do it. However, a single, unupgraded yari sam gets eaten alive by a MHC on even terms. The way to win against them is this:

First choice - Upgrade! A yari sam with +3 armor and weapons will take out an equal honor MHC with a loss of only 10-15 men on level ground head to head. The upgrades make a HUGE difference.

Second choice - terrain and maneuver. Use a unit to pin the facing of the MHC, then flank or rear it with sams. Also, use terrain - sit on a high hill, fight down, and also try and fight in woods. The penalty cav take in woods is horrendous and the MHC will fall quick.

Last choice - Overwhelm
This is the last choice since head to head, a single MHC can and does take out 3 YS units before dropping or running off. If you have the manpower, use it if there is no other way. Usually - there is. Find it!

Also - do not use heavy cav against the mongol heavy cav. The reason is simple - again the MHC will win easily. Use Naginata cav if your determined to have mounted troops.


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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Hosakawa Tito]

I would also suggest using 3-4 high honor crossbowmen,preferably with armor,to chop the heavy cav numbers down.If your on defense set up on an open hill to give your crossbows an unobstructed shot,and cover them with YS.A few foot archers are good to have too,but crossbows should be your main missile force.Yari Cav are nice to flank the Mongol Heavy Cav,but they will get chewed up.
Cav Archers are almost useless except to pick off those pesky Thunderbombers and Skimishers.They need an escort of Yari Cav to be effective at all,even the Mongol Heavy Cav can run them down,let alone the Light Cav.Develop the Legendary Archery Dojo in Totomi for your crossbows,+3 honor with a general bonus to boot makes them very effective.Definitely devlop armor and swordsmiths,your going to need them to beat these Mongols.

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[jskirwin@yahoo.com]

Thanks for the tips on handling the MHC.

Just wrapped up the campaign. The horde reinforcements hit north of Kyoto, and man does it suck defending that province... Anyway I somehow managed to take out the MHC there with YS with upgraded weapons and silver armor. Lost my entire initial force, but when the reinforcements arrived they were scattered all over the map. The horde seemed dispirited and I won by default...

So the key here if you are playing the Hojo: Spend like mad and upgrade quickly. Try to stop the horde in Kyushu, then build up a concentration of troops in Western Honshu and later in Central (to take out the surprise eastern reinforcement).

JK
PS: Ashi crossbowman are great while cav archers are a waste of koku...

[Tora]

Playing Mongols on hard I had reinforcements land in Dewa in 1287. My nearest units were in Kaga.
They'll be landing on the East coast next.