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Thread: post murder?

  1. #1
    Member Member clairobscur's Avatar
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    Just wondering....I suppose that the content of the "christian murder" thread was controversial enough for the moderators to close it, but why itsn't possible at all to merely read it? I'm disappointed , I came especially for that...


  2. #2
    Member Member clairobscur's Avatar
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    Seems I came just a minute too late..The thread totally disapeared while I was typing my last message...

    By the way, what are the implicit rules for posts written in this forum?

  3. #3
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Sorry Clairobscur,

    I deleted it. Kurando had already closed it but I was so offended by it I deleted it.

    I also think its presence would have attracted people with a lot of unwanted opinions onto this board.

    I'm a pretty tolerant person but there has to be somewhere we draw the line.

    [This message has been edited by Didz (edited 11-02-2000).]
    Didz
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  4. #4
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    oh its gone... rofl, such an amusing thread, i read it before, just came back to save myself a copy, d'oh! ANYONE?

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  5. #5
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    Until I am told otherwise the rules are as agreed by the membership of the original Sword Dojo.

    1. No obscene language.
    2. No threats or abuse.
    3. No discussion on Multiplayer cheats.
    4. No swapping of CD code information.
    5. No double or multiple postings.

    In addition the posting of images in posts is generally discouraged without prior permission from Kurando.

    There was also an understanding that the naming of MP players who are suspected of cheating was not a good idea.

    I believe Kurando is planning to post the unabridged version of the forum guidelines somewhere where you can all read it.
    Didz
    Fortis balore et armis

  6. #6
    Member Member DrNo's Avatar
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    I'm with Didz. The originator asked for it to be deleted anyway so lets forget all about it ever existing.
    I say if anyone finds anything offensive in a game then they should simply not play it, just the same as you wouldn't watch a film you found offensive.
    Anyway, Shogun Shogun Shogun (just keeping it on topic!).

    Like the new images by the way and who came up with Ronin as being lower than Ashigaru?
    Ronin are very skilled warriors so should surely be higher.

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Kurando's Avatar
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    Didz is correct in pointing those issues out, but given some new circumstances I feel that an update/clearification on the forum guidelines is now in order, (and yes, a full and complete list will be posted on the main page at a later date):

    First off, I feel that the obscene language thing is not a big issue anymore. Unlike the previous MB there is no filter here, and since Shogun Total War has received a "teen+" rating for it's content, we therefor target this site to a teen+ audience; hence, if patrons feel a need to swear for some reason I won't endeavour to stop them, (esp in the OT forum).

    Also, the speed of this new server is such that posting images is not a big problem either + Some of the moderators feel that it will add some life to the forum; so, if you have something relevant to post, go for it! That having been said however, we want to discourage "large", or "overtly annoying" signatures. I'm sure you understand...

    Finally, please keep in mind that these "rules" aren't really "rules" per se; IMO behavour guidelines here should be predicated on common sense-type stuff. Basiscally, I can sum this up by saying: don't act like an idiot, and I promise none of the staff will treat you like one.

    As far as the murder thread goes Didz and Obake are the moderators here and normally I would never step on their toes and close a thread, but in this case since the patron specifically requested that the thread be closed/deleted, I went ahead and did so.

    The thread was also expressed in full on the official forum: http://pub24.ezboard.com/fshoguntota...icID=844.topic Try to give the guy a break though; I didnt think it was funny. To my mind Brown Wolf is just someone who is passionate about his chosen faith + if that leads him to be offended by the games crucifiction scene, so be it.

    Modern civilization is a vast conspiracy against silence

  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    You guys didn't miss anything. Brown Wolf just took the game a little too seriously, and by the end even he was sick of debating the point.

    If that's the worst controversy this board ever has then we'll be in great shape
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  9. #9
    Senior Member Senior Member The Scourge's Avatar
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    I posted just before i left for work ,so didn't get to see a reply.
    so what was so bad that the thread had to be wiped off the board?
    Because it had the potential to be a really interesting thread.
    That's it.

  10. #10
    Member Member DrNo's Avatar
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    There wasn't anything in the actual post but there soon would have been.

    We could always start an off-topic thread and I'll convert you all

    [This message has been edited by DrNo (edited 11-02-2000).]

  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member The Scourge's Avatar
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    Oh dear its not gonna get like the old forum i hope.
    Threads going missing all the time.
    Didz i really think you should come up with something a little better than "I was offended by it ,so i closed it."because thats just an abuse of power.
    Sorry to be so blunt,but you've always been fair in the past.
    That's it.

  12. #12
    Member Member lanza27's Avatar
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    If the Moderator feels that a thread is not appropriate for HIS forum then he can close it if he feels like it. Thats the job of the Moderator, to keep the forum on the right track. If he doesn't want a religious discussion on the STW forum then he may close it and say we don't want anymore of that.
    Besides if anyone wants to know wht happened to Brown Wolf and his thoughts check out the Official Forum. I have him backed in a corner. He can't out argue me on this stuff. I Guarantee it. He is just flat out wrong on this one.



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    Lanza
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  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    Scourge,

    You indicate that in the past, Didz has always been fair in his approach to being a moderator. Trust in his fairness here as well.

    I completely missed out on the whole thread so I'm way behind the curve on this one, but the simple fact that the originator asked to have it closed would be enough reason for me. If it were an offensive thread (as this one apparantly was) I see no reason why it should remain viewable once it had been closed.

    From what I've gathered, it is still viewable over at the community forum and anyone who is interested could go check it out over there.

    Obake
    Obake

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  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member The Scourge's Avatar
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    lanza27.
    This is not HIS forum.This is our forum.
    At least thats what we were told on the old Dojo.
    And its got nothing to do with Brown Wolf,being backed into any corner.
    I thought it was a moderaters job to stop threads ,if they were getting out of hand;lots of stupid flames that serve no perpose ,that kind of thing.
    Not to close threads on a whim ,just because he personally doesn't like the subject matter.
    That's it.

  15. #15
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    Scourge,

    Check out my previous post along with Kurando's.

    The thread was closed at Brown Wolf's request, not on the whim of any of the moderators. It was deleted because it was an inflammatory thread and served no useful purpose on this forum (at least that's my best guess having read the thread over at the community).

    You are right in saying that this is your/our forum and we as moderators "ride herd" if you will. That requires us to at times make difficult and un-popular decisions and I have no doubt that mistakes will be made. Don't forget though that YOU indicate that Didz had always been fair in the past. I'll re-state my position that you should trust in that regarding the thread.

    Obake
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  16. #16
    Naughty Little Hippy Senior Member Tachikaze's Avatar
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    The first gaming forum I joined was AoK Heaven. While there are good discussions on that site, especially in the History Forum, the forums are full of insults, nationalistic preaching, and racism. It gets old after a while.

    I ran upon this forum, the old one, in early September. I really liked the maturity of the posts I saw here (OK, stop laughing!). Despite the idiotic posts meant to increase forumers' post counts, the quality of this forum is higher than AoK Heaven or the STW official site. At least it was in September. I like the way forumers here treat each other.

    I think this is, in some part, due to the moderators. If I hosted a forum, I would be tolerant, but I would have complete control over the content, and would make sure the forum adheres to the standards I set.

    What's my post count now, 17? Three more. I think I'll go post some nonsense on the Off-Topic Forum . . .

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    [This message has been edited by Tachikaze (edited 11-02-2000).]


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  17. #17
    Member Member S.O.L's Avatar
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    EH it happens, threads get closed and deleted on every board.

    the lads here do a great job all for no pay.

    The new site is excellent the boards are superb even though i have said it before.

    Sometimes even the best of us lose it, and the international nature of this M/Board or any other for that matter, means from time to time members will post the odd topic about something that others will find offencive and the moderators will have to step in and do the thing they hate the most which is closing or deleting threads or post's

    and they do hate it no moderator or admin likes spoiling anbody elses fun or having to step in and intervene in a thread.

    this is just the nature of "Good" Message Boards everywhere.

    So when one thread disapear's there is always a good reason for it, and you can bet it was not closed on a whim, but rather after a lot of thought.

    Anyway thats is my 2 penny worth.



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  18. #18
    Senior Member Senior Member The Scourge's Avatar
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    To Obake.
    I do respect Didz.He has always been fair in the past.Its just that i think he was wrong on this one.
    At least he may be wrong ,but i woudn't know because the thread was wiped from the board.
    All right i know Didz didn't close the thread.And im not sure where i stand on posters requesting threads that they started should be closed.
    Its just that the thread had something new to say about the game.Something that im surprized hasn't been brought up before.And my understanding is is that thread had not gotten out of hand ,and i don't think it fair to close a thread because it might.
    Go take a look in the other forum ,and you'll find some interesting points being made.
    I would like to make clear that i think the moderaters do a good job,but that doesn't mean i have to go along with every thing they do.
    We as members have to right to disagree.
    That's it.

  19. #19
    Member Member Didz's Avatar
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    I had a feeling that I would be taken to task for my decision over the Christian Murder thread and I shall do my best to clarify and explain my actions.

    Firstly, though I should like to thank Dr No, Kurando, Lanza27, Obake and Tachikaze for their support and vote of confidence.

    To 'the Scourge' I would say. Yes! You have every right to be concerned this is our forum not mine and you have a right to question every decision I make on your behalf. I am perfectly willing to have my judgement challenged and to stand by my past record as a moderator which I am pleased to note you consider to be fair.

    Unfortunately! As a forum moderator I have to rely upon my own judgement as to what is in the best interests of this forum and its members. And with the best will in the world I can only apply my own assessment as to what is obscene or offensive which may not always be in tune with everyone else.

    I decided to delete the 'Christian Murder' thread for three reasons:

    1) The thread whilst referring to STW was an overt statement of Brown Wolf's religious belief's in the same way that Kornchild's thread in the old forum was a statement of his political belief. Not only are such matters inappropriate in this forum but as Tachikaze has already noted they are likely to illicit strong reactions from people with opposing beliefs and experiences and create bad feeling and rifts between the members.

    I enjoy coming to this forum and don't want to see it degenerate into that sort of anarchy.

    2) The reaction of our membership to this thread was another factor.

    I notice that Brown Wolf's duplicate thread on the official forum has sparked a lively debate with Lanza27 in the thick of the argument. Unfortunately, the general reaction on this forum was dominated by the typical mix of mild abuse and leg pulling which is a normal part of our camaraderie.
    However, It was clear that Brown Wolf was not amused by this reaction at all and in the end he requested that the thread be removed.

    3) Finally, I suspected that (and clairobscur's post later confirmed) the word was out. And that if this thread remained on the board the situation would have continued to escalate and expand in any one of a number of different directions with the possible consequence of alienating large sections of the forum membership with equally strong but different beliefs and principles.

    In the end I decided that my reaction to this thread was likely to be an honest reflection of the majority of the membership and based on that and the reasons above I pressed the delete button.
    Didz
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  20. #20
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    And just how did you escape us long enough to develop a mind of your own Scourge?

    Well, no matter....we have you now! Remember Soylent Green? heh heh heh

    Please don't think that I was questioning your respect for Didz or any of the moderators, or expecting conformity. I'm pretty sure that you and most of the others have read enough of my posts to know how I feel about that I'll stand up for anyone's right to disagree with me, no matter how wrong they are (just kidding)

    As far as I'm concerned, everyone is agreeing to disagree on the appropriateness of how the Christian murder thread was handled and that's fine with me.

    Obake

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  21. #21
    Senior Member Senior Member FwSeal's Avatar
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    Not only do I personally support Didz on his call for the sake of the community but also in light of the Org's past forum history. For the newer members, this is actually the 3rd incarnation of the Org's message board (that I was around to take part in, at least). The first actually had to be taken down and replaced with a secured board due to threads just like the one Didz closed. Just as Didz indicates above, the rifts caused by these offensive threads led to a general state of anarchy. Just as an example, there was a post simply asking if anyone had seen a certain game about WW2. By the end of it, the thread had gone on for something like 120 posts and degenerated into a US vs. UK vs. Canada flame war. Sure, there were amusing moments, but the damage doen far exceeded them in the long run. I finally left for a while, as did a number of other members of the community. It would be a shame if that sort of thing happened again (and it could very easily).

  22. #22
    Senior Member Senior Member The Scourge's Avatar
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    Well thanks for the reply Didz.I still don't really agree a 100%,but you had your reasons so thats that.
    On brown Wolf.He's started quite an intersting cavalry thread over at the other place ,so lets give him his due ,he's no korn child.
    Obake ,i don't have my own mind.At least not since i got married.
    That's it.

  23. #23
    Member Member lanza27's Avatar
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    I was not trying to yell at anyone before. It is OUR forum as you say but we entrust the Moderators to do whats best. And thats what Didz did. But on top of that we have the right to disagree as everyone has said. Now this disagreement will obviously be part of Didz's thinking the next time he is encountered by such a problem. So we all live and learn here.

    My conversation the official forum has had no response from Brown Wolf in a while. It has actually turned into a civil war debate at the moment. I don't mind that onnthe Official Forum but I would not bring such an arguement in to this forums General Discussion or even my own forum's discussion. Thats why I kept the comments over there at the Official Forum and just looked at the thread by Brown Wolf here.

    The Official Forum got off-topic a LONG time ago so I didn't think anyone would notice over there. But this is new and organized and I love it now so i didn't want to start political speeches that would drive this thread or the forum off to oblivion.

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    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are
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    Shogun Totalwar Hints and Strategies
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    Remember, no matter where you go, there you are

  24. #24
    Senior Member Senior Member The Black Ship's Avatar
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    Not to worry Scourge,

    Other than my usual brilliant and salient points you didn't miss a thing.

    You would not have gained anything by participating in that thread, it just wasn't that memorable. Hell, even Brown Wolf would tell you that!

    As I said, if this is the worst it ever gets here then we're in darn good shape
    All we are saying....is give peas a chance - Jolly Green Giant

  25. #25
    Member Member IRONLUNG's Avatar
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    In any case the topic belonged in the off topic section of the Sword Dojo.



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  26. #26
    Member Member NARF's Avatar
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    PREACH ON BRUTHA
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  27. #27
    Member Member clairobscur's Avatar
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    Well...I can't criticize the moderator decision. I spent part of the last night on one of the best travel board. One of the first thread I saw was about english bashing. I took the time to answer it, then I went on reading...And I found out that more or less 1/3 of the threads were intended to be or had turned to a bshing of some nationality (mostly british/australians/canadians/americans, as it's an english-speaking board but occasionaly greeks, frenchs,etc..). And that on a travel board, where posters are supposed to be interested in other countries, cultures, etc...I was sooooooooo disapointed!!!

    So I understand perfectly why the moderators choose to delete it, though I regret not having the time to read it before and have some fun, as you did. And anyway as the thread is going on on the official board, I was able to jump in the controversy too, there!!!

    Before replying, please note I didn't assess I was a logical and coherent person

  28. #28
    Senior Member Senior Member TheRonin's Avatar
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    I dont really see the point of this thread continueing on any further, whats done is done, lets just leave things the way they are and be done with it, this is not my topic to mod but Didz it may be best to just close this one down, your call.

    ------------------
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  29. #29
    Senior Member Senior Member Obake's Avatar
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    Ronin make a good point! I believe that this thread has gone as far as it can.

    We have pretty much exhausted the topic and I believe that our efforts are better directed towards the game and will close the topic.

    I'm glad we had an opportunity to discuss the expectations of the moderators and administrators for this forum, along with giving people the opportunity to express their desires as well.

    I will leave the topic up for anyone who wants to refer back to the content of this thread.
    Obake

    Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.


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