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Thread: The Future of STW

  1. #1
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    The MI patch is up, and multiplayer experience in MI changed radically. It's basically old STW now, with new units + game modes. And everyone will play that now.

    Therefore, what is the future of old STW? Is it destined to a slow death? Closed down? Or a bunch of Stwian fundementalists will never betray the good old systems?

    Personally, now that the patch is here, I have left STW forever and uninstalled my copy on the hard disk.

    What will everyone do?

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  2. #2
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    tera,

    i was thinking about just the same thing the other day and my conclusions were pretty much the same as when any company dev team abandon any game. we all know that di/ca is hot to get on with crusaders and we know that they're pretty much told us 'one patch is all we can afford', so, even though they've left us some availability to some of the files to mod, the game will slowly die from here on in.

    there will always be some 'dedicated' (fanatic?) players around, but for the most part, without new dev mods the game will fade. this is quite a shame too, since there are still a TON of things they could do with this game. tosa and i were discussing this a few days ago and we came up with a totally revolutionary style to play this game AND we worked out how to do a simple multi campaign within the foyer that wouldnt take that much work to accomplish, would be fun as hell and take about 4 hours per game. we even postulated how to save a game in progress or make a longer running game that could take days or, a never ending campaign online...more or less :)

    and that doesnt even include all the spin-offs that could be done using this engine alone! khan7 did his civil war mod with the stats, and more of this could easily be done and done even better if we could have their .bif reader/writer.

    if the dev guys are going to abandon this game, then i hope they leave us the tools to carry on. they've already opened the stat files, which is great, but i hope they leave us a bit more :)

    i've seen this many times before, without the dev team constantly 'creating the game', the game dies, slow or fast, it dies.

    K.


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  3. #3

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    Krae what ideas did you have for an online campaign?



    "The mind is everything. What you think you become."

    "The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed."

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  4. #4
    Senior Member Senior Member Krasturak's Avatar
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    Gah! Games like 'Close Combat 3' last to this day ... the highly mod-able nature of it allows the players to make the tweaks and re-make the game to suit them ...

    Old Shoggy might live on for a while until the number of players falls below the critical number needed to make finding a game frequent enough to keep people in the foyer waiting. Maybe 5-7 people on is enough ... once it falls below that it will die as an online game.

    New WE Shoggy might last longer if our community stays interested. But there are problems with the unit balances that might drive players away.

    ****

    Once the game has been dead for a couple of years they *might* release the code so old fogeys can re-program and fiddle with it. That's only possible after the game and any other products using the same bodies of code are past profitability.

    Then your dreams can come true in like 2010 or 2020 if there are still any people left on the scorched planet ho aren't starving to death to play it then.

  5. #5
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    swoosh,

    tosa and i discussed starting with a VERY simple online campaign model that could be played from the online server. there wouldnt be any building of buildings or things like that, not to start with anyways. keep it simple and build on it later on.

    but the server, as it's set up, lends itself very nicely with all it's rooms and sub-rooms to an ideal campaign arena. it would take some coding to make some communication channels that would go between the various rooms and it would take an online strat map being posted in some of these rooms. but it really wouldnt take very much to set up a 'main campaign' room (or several of them) which then had sub 'clan rooms'. you would come to the main room, pick which room your 'clan' was in and go there to play. your daimyo would assign you a province or sub-province (tosa and i divided up each province into 5 maps) and he would also assign a certain amount of koku for you to spend. each province or sub-province would receive a fixed amount of koku as income every 4 seasons. a 'season' timer would have to be installed. you could move your armies from one area into a new adjoining area once every 5 minutes to simulate travel time. (we called these sub-provinces fiefs). attacks and defenses would be initiated from each clan room and show up in the other clan rooms on the strat map.

    if a province did have 5 fiefs, it might have one castle within the province. to receive the income from that province you would have to capture either the castle or the entire province of 5 fiefs. if you captured 3 of the 5, the original 'owner' would still get the income from the 2 remaining fiefs, but not from the 3 that were captured by someone else. so, you'd have to 'own' the province before you got income for it. owning could be determined either by capturing a castle or by capturing the entire province. would simply depend on how you wanted to set it up.

    it would also be VERY important to add some 'moderator' controls to these rooms so that you could remove unwanted players from your 'clan hall' room. or just to be able to keep them out in the first place. clans might also need to communicate so you'd have to set up some comm channels that would act as your 'diplomacy' channels for alliances and so on.

    you'd also have to adjust how a battle was initiated, since yer playing from several different clan halls. you'd have to be able to have differing koku amounts also and fixed armies across many battles with repairs and re-supplys to troops as well. you'd also have to be able to join a battle in progress since you might be attacking a fief that already has a battle going on.

    it would take a bit of coding. we tried to keep it as simple as possible to start with for just that reason. upgrades like building buildings and varying koku incomes could come later. but the potential for a real online campaign is there.

    i wont even go into some of the other things tosa and i came up with, but suffice it to say that it could get VERY interesting. tosa had one idea that was absolutely brilliant and could change this game in a way that is remarkably simple yet brilliant all at once.

    this game has as much potential as any game i've EVER seen online and i find it more than remarkable that the dev guys are willing to just leave it untapped. it just boggles the mind :)

    ah well, i could always learn to code, i guess :)

    K.


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  6. #6

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    Ye i completely agree but if they did give us access, whats to stop us doing crusaders ourselves it would be quite simple. Tho it obviously wouldent compete with what they release, Anyway im sure whatever we manage to do we will all buy crusaders anyway, id like to make mods not crusaders like because they are releasing it but something maybe even a fantasy thing, with dragons and stuff like the book lord of the rings.

    BLAH BLAH BLAH im getting to excited and rambling on!!!!!!!

    Swoooooooooooooooooooooosh

    ps: your idea sounds good for campaign would have a tournament feeel to it.

    Swoosh

    [This message has been edited by Swoosh So (edited 09-30-2001).]


    "The mind is everything. What you think you become."

    "The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed."

    Buddha

  7. #7
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    :) swoosh,

    always nice to have imaginative folks around. i too could see some interesting possibilities in simple mods of the game. (see, i was secretly still hoping that we/mi would be cavemen :) neaderthal samurai!

    to start with, swoosh, it would prolly have more of a tourney feel to it, and could certainly be used for that as well. after you had the simple mode working, you'd move on to a more complex building/fighting game. one of the advantages to the way i proposed would be that you 'could' completely do away with 'buying honor'. all units would default to H0 when first purchasing. as you won or lost battles your honor ratings would be adjusted for that army based on the outcome of the battle and since you would continue to use the same armies, the honor would simply be whatever you had earned, not bought. then, the only mods you could buy would be the armor and weapons upgrades. this would simplify all the nonsense about 'selling honor' and so on. morale ratings would still be based on honor, but it would be more of a real morale based on actual confidence and victories...or losses. you could also pass on a little of the 'won' honor to the daimyo himself, since he is the 'brains' of your clan and thus deserving of some credit in an army's victory. this daimyo honor could even then be applied back to an overall honor bonus to other army's within the clan or maybe even act as a koku bonus somehow.

    the key is simplicity to begin with. kiss...keep it simple stupid. clans would take on a whole new meaning. clan daimyo's would mean something more than just a title no one pays much attention to. recruiting would become a bit more competitive and newbies might actually get trained.

    when a full game ended by someone capturing all of the strat map or everyone conceded or however it ended, it might also even be possible to continue your current honor ratings into the next game, or maybe at least the daimyo's. scores could be posted on the web site and could actually mean something since it wouldnt be necessarily one battle score, but a score over the entire campaign or maybe you'd just post the daimyo's or clan's current honor rating. i dunno. havent thought too much about that part of it. but i wouldnt even bother with that part till i had the simple model in place and debugged.

    you also wouldnt need to play the entire map of japan. this could be adjustable based on what everyone wanted. lots of things could be done here and tosa and i were mostly just discussing the simple model. such things as ongoing campaigns over days or weeks could be done later on, and sections of the entire map of japan might come into play at varying times or something. castles and river battles would start being played as well and folks would have to get better at a wide variety of maps, instead of this boring totomi, 4th kawa, and harima madness that exists now, since each fief would have a fixed map based somewhat in reality.

    like i say, the potential within this game is a rather large one and i'm sure others have ideas that would be workable and fun as well.

    K.


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  8. #8
    Senior Member Senior Member NinjaKilla's Avatar
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    v interesting K; I didn't quite understand - are you referring to old STW or the new one?

    Tera I haven't tried the patch, has game speed been reduced?

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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally posted by NinjaKilla:

    Tera I haven't tried the patch, has game speed been reduced?
    [/QUOTE]

    Not at all. It has been increased actually.
    And with the STW morale, a game is even more faster.

    Units die very quickly when fired upon, especially with guns, and with the STW morale, a game would last not much...

    Tera


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  10. #10
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    nk,

    no reason why it couldnt be applied to both. i'm just talking about a generic multiplayer online campaign. could be done on both servers. the code wouldnt need to vary all that much from stw to we/mi for this.

    K.


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  11. #11
    Senior Member Senior Member qwertyuiop's Avatar
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    It took a little while to visualize... then I relized it was pure genus

  12. #12
    Senior Member Senior Member NinjaKilla's Avatar
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    Yeah K, I'd be up for that.

    STW is getting a little stale, however I just don't wanna play MI it's too fast (or maybe I'm to slow ... ...

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  13. #13
    Senior Member Senior Member Kraellin's Avatar
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    why thank you, T,

    bout time someone recognized that around here ;)

    but if you really want brilliant, get tosa to tell you HIS idea :)

    K.


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  14. #14
    Senior Member Senior Member Krasturak's Avatar
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    Gah! Your campaign idea seems fine except ...

    There won't be players from all the Clans online all the time to play it.

    The scheduling aspect is missing; if a player goes off-line does it mean that his country isn't defended? Is protected from invasion? Is defended by the AI?

    Perhaps we could install chains on th players so they can't leave STW after they log on.

  15. #15

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    Lol krast i think krae was outlining an idea, not down to specifics yet hehe.
    *opens coffin*
    *creeps into coffin*
    *closes coffin*

    Ps im gonna miss all u guys


    Swooooooooooooooooooooooooosh!!!!!


    "The mind is everything. What you think you become."

    "The whole secret of existence is to have no fear. Never fear what will become of you, depend on no one. Only the moment you reject all help are you freed."

    Buddha

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