shinobi - a good investment, and other tricks

[omine-san]

Guess many know this, but anyway...

I found shinobi to be a better investment than mines. Playing Mori, by 1538 I had 20 shinobi (the Tajima fine brand) and most of Oda's lands, punitive (125%) tax rates and all provinces above 110% loyalty, by use of shinobi in newly conquered provinces. On a gross income of about 7500, this represents over 1800 koku yearly profit. And they don't cost to upkeep too. Also it sppeds up your progress by freeing your troops to advance faster after a conquest.

A trick against rebels : usually 1 unit of even one soldier is enough to keep then from entering a province. In winter, take the guarding unit out of a nearby province (that has no buildings, of course). The ronin will invade every time with at least one unit. Then you can take both provinces one by one, easier. At the end of summer, which is the deciding season for controlling provinces that count for income at autumn, you have them both, and 2 wins rather than one. A possible bonus is when you rout them, they have nowhere to go and disappear - no siege. I find this a nice trick in the early years when every unit counts.

In defending river provinces against high odds, place your archers back from the river in a wide circle, not in range of the bridge. let the first units cross and advance a little, and turn off 'fire at will'. When the first units march inm send your melee troops from flanking positions and one from the front. Make sure the area they fight in is out of range of enemy archers - that's why your archers need to be farther back, to take enemy archers out of the equation. Use archer fire to help rout enemy troops, starting about when they start marching in after arranging themselves at the bank, until they engage; don't fire when they are routing, just chase with troops. Repeat as necessary. Finally the enemy archers march (since they have no other troops...), and you attack all out - don't let them get settled on the bank. I found this tactic good against worse than 1:3 odds, even with inferior troops. if the enemy daimyo is in the battle, let him advance all the way to your archers, then trap him.

I find Mori to be the toughest to win with : poor lands, as Shimazu, but no benefit of a small front. The time pressure is the hardest - you got to get to the happy hunting ground in the east before one of the clans there gets unbeatable.

By the way, I never get to make guns or heavy cavalry anymore, or even much upgraded troops anymore - either the campaign is over in about 20 years, or I fail.

[Catiline]

Are you on original flavour STW or Xpack. Sounds like original..

Shinobi are indeed massively more usefull than they used to be now in MI. This is good, and you can't afford to playwithout them. As for holding provinces against the ronin you now need to have more sensible armies or they will invade. Those single ashigru can't be reliad on anymore.

River defences you're spot on, if the enemy rout you casn go 10-1 against them easy.

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Oderint dum metuant

[Maltz]

Personally I think there are no conflicts between Shinobi and Mines, both requiring a small number of investment.

In MI/WE, both are more worth getting because the construction time and cost are cut down to 1/2, while individual shinobi is far more effective

[omine-san]

Yup I'm on the original, MI hasn't made it to the shelves this far into the province of the world... maybe Atilla is afraid too.

By the way, I had my first 3-way fight a few days ago, Takeda and Hojo against poor me Imagawa, in Shinano, 5600 total against 1600. I won but they did give me a scare.

I wonder, is there a practical difference between general ranks 0 and 1, 2 and 3, 4 and 5 ?

I also heard there is a way to choose your 16 starting units when defending, how ?

Thanks

[Moriboy]

No way to choose your 16 starting units omine-san and yes the higher the general the more honor by association he imparts to his troops.

[omine-san]

Moriboy I meant - ranks 0 and 1 both get no bonus, 2 and 3 +1, 4 and 5 +2 ; but is there any small difference anyway ? sometimes generals of rank 1 are noted 'his troops get a small honor bonus' .

[Maltz]

Quote Originally posted by omine-san:
sometimes generals of rank 1 are noted 'his troops get a small honor bonus' .[/QUOTE]

That's a lie!

[KumaRatta Yamamoto]

"I wonder, is there a practical difference between general ranks 0 and 1, 2 and 3, 4 and 5 ?"

A taisho ranked 2 adds +1 honour to all your troops, a taisho ranked 4 adds +2, ranked 6 adds +3 etc...

[BSM_Skkzarg]

No practical difference in rank 0vs1, 2vs3,4vs5, etc.
In WE/MI you can set your starting 16 units, but not in the original. Also - the rank flags for generals is bloody nice in WE/MI. Ninja seem to be more reliable when the odds are good for success as well.
Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[ReturnOfTheJordi]

Catiline writes :-

>>>>>>Shinobi are indeed massively more usefull than they used to be now in MI. This is good, and you can't afford to playwithout them.

That's simply not true that you can't afford to play without Shinobi. I never use them (or any other darkside unit) and win my campaigns by 1544 or so.

[Maltz]

Quote Originally posted by ReturnOfTheJordi:
Catiline writes :-
That's simply not true that you can't afford to play without Shinobi. I never use them (or any other darkside unit) and win my campaigns by 1544 or so.
[/QUOTE]

That's pretty fast! I wonder how you deal with the never-ending revolts and enemy ninjas... argh ~~~

By the way, the difference of Shinobi can be seen in the Mongol campaign. We have to put at least 2 or 3 units of army in all newly conquered provinces to prevent a revolt

[ReturnOfTheJordi]

It's interesting the different ways people deal with the problem. My basic strategy is to invest everything in troops, the facilities to train troops, and only the highest value farm improvements - for a quick campaign victory, most provinces are not worth improving. Tax rates are carefully monitored to control unrest. I get very few revolts. Where possible, I try to take the enemy castles as soon as possible to prevent troop build up against me. This also means I don't need the initial investment in a new castle as I have taken it from the enemy. I will invest in improving the castle especially in the areas which produce high honour troops - Totomi (archers) is a favourite province for example.
The only disadvantage of these quick victories is that I don't reach the top of the technology tree and I don't get to produce any guns.

[Gothmog]

That's why I like slow and painful campaigns. Fighting with/against Ashigaru and spearmen and archers only, is (yawn) too damn boring.

IMHO, the following are really where the fun of STW coming from:
1) Being attacked from both fronts when you are puny.

2) Horrible harvests (several years in a roll) when you need koku and loyalty the most. The only time you get good harvest is when you have lowered the tax to very low to please the peasants.

3) Provinces give you something like 150 koku every year and are revolting. When they do revolt, they bring up massive armies with monks and good general(s).

3) You win battles with 5:1 kill ratio with crappy units but are still not happy because you just can hardly afford any loss at all.

4) Desperately moving your embasay around the map, begging for peace. When he finally locates the Daimyo, a ninja pops up ...