retraining your daimyo

[solypsist]

i can't seem to be able to do it.
i'd like to upgrade my daimyo unit with legendary armor and weapons, but can't seme to retrain since the unit is automatically renewed with men (the only way the game seems to let you "retrain" units). anyone else figured out a way to upgrade the daimyo?

[Pachinko]

I tried along time ago. No go. It sucks.
Maybe we can wait.... the patch. I hope.
P.

[Target]

The reason you can't do it is because if you could stick your daimyo into the retraining queue, you'd keep him immune from death for up to 6 seasons( unless he's retraining and you lose the region ), and then I'll bet everyone would keep doing it over and over again until all the other clans give up.

The other reason you can't upgrade him is that daimyos are tough enough to kill as it is without having them wandering around in shiny indestructable armour and wiping out great slews of soldiers with a legendary sword.

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Quote MagyarKhans Cham:
i even suspect Target is coming here to hype things up.[/QUOTE]

[LordTed]

Target thank you i got my x pack

[Hosakawa Tito]

I've tried Soly,and I can't retrain him either.Seems odd that the Daimyo has no armor and the lowest quality of sword,and a unit of lowly peasants can be equipped with the best.He better be good
Congrats Ted,it's about time.Way to go Target for helping him.

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[MIZILUS]

How 'bout this...has anyone ever been able to get their daimyo to have more than 10 body guards? I have tried a few times to combine a less than full heav cav unit with my daimyo to get the daimyo's unit up to 60...no luck. Is this just the way it is?

[Zone]

Yup, there's no way to increase the bodyguard. The diamyo always seems to be the last of the group to be killed. Can you imagine how hard it would be to wade through an entire unit of HC? It would only make it far harder than it already is.

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Fight first, ask questions later.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Miz - yes, because the Diamyo is not a war unit - he is the leader of your clan and the heavy cav he has with him are his Hatamoto - his samuria bodyguards/warlords/honor guard.

If your planning on running him around a battlefield - don't get mad when he ends up reared by a group of yari cav or sams and falls like a little girly-man.

As for upgrading his armor/weapons - I have to agree with Target and the designers here - not on the retraining issue itself - but rather on the fact that the Diamyo (and to a lesser extent all Taisho's) are quite a bit tougher than your average man. In fact - I have seen an enemy Yari Sam Taisho take down a slightly tired Kensai - although the taisho's unit was creamed in the process. Having the armor and weapon bonus added to your diamyo would create basically a Kensai on a horse - without the vulnerability to cav or BN. I don't see that as being a good thing.

If your taking your Diamyo onto the field of battle - it should be due to the importance of the battle itself - and he should only ride into the fray when it will turn the tide or seal the win. Otherwise, your looking to lose him quick...

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Gothmog]

Quote Originally posted by BSM_Skkzarg:
Miz - yes, because the Diamyo is not a war unit - he is the leader of your clan and the heavy cav he has with him are his Hatamoto - his samuria bodyguards/warlords/honor guard.
[/QUOTE]

Actually I have an idea. Browsing through the log file, I find that your daimyo or taisho is always way tougher than the rest of the men in the unit. What's more, most of the time he is indeed the last man to die.

The odd doesn't seem right even after taking into account the higher honor (compared to the other soldiers) of that general. For instance, say you put two heirs in an army. And those two heirs have the same stats, then very likely after the battle, the one who takes the role of commander will live, while the other one under his command has a fairly good chance of dying (relavant to the so called "lose-heir-by-grouping-him-with-his-dad" bug.

To make the long story short, I propose that we indeed add special taisho unit following the fashion of how the daimyo is handled. The taisho will have his bodyguard, but his unit won't be efficient for combat purpose.

After all, in real life, if a commander is too absorbed in taking heads himself, he probably won't have enough time to bark orders at all.

[Zone]

This is fair enough but it's far more exciting to run your taisho into the battle at the head of a souped up No dachi unit in the hope of boosting his honour than to have him sitting up on a hill and watching.

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Fight first, ask questions later.

[solypsist]

might as well have the tents back into the game. while i understand teh reasons, and find them reasonable, the concept of my daimyo (and his bodyguard) with legenary armor is still exciting to me. but the best response so far is Target's; that makes the most sense game-wise.

[Papewaio]

Unlike the Kensai who could be like Miyamoto Musashi running around with a Katana and a boat oar [which would not exactly be a legendary level weapon set], you could safely assume that the Diamyo and his personal bodyguard come pre-equipped with the best equipment handed down for generations.

Sure the Daimyo isn't in a unit of 60, but I have found that the 11 of them are far more manvourable and that is useful... and if I really want a larger bodyguard I flank him with either 2 HC or 2 YC.

And is it true that the Daimyo is always the last to die? I swear [memory problems when one has bloodshot eyes, 3 litres of coke and playing straight for 6 hours] that I have had the Daimyo cark it before the hatamoto had been wiped out...

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Victory first, Battle last.

[solypsist]

many occasions I've sent the enemy daimyo fleeing, and receive the message that h'e been killed, yet i still see one or two of his heavy cav bodyguard (with battlebanner) on the battlefield, so it is possible to kill him before the rest of his men. As far as missile troops go, it's always been that shooting arrows, etc. will kill off everyone with the daimyo last, same with taisho's unit.

[Papewaio]

So does the daimyo/taisho just have particularly good armour or defence?



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Victory first, Battle last.

[dagdriver]

No, the taisho isn't allways the last to die from ranged atttacks - but mostly he is.
I have played SP for more than a year, and remember 1 instance where the enemy taisho was in a 60 man YS unit. As they marched towards my lines, the third arrow volley - much to my surpise- brought the taisho down (confirmed by "kill message" and wavering enemy army)
Though this is the only time it has ever happened to me.
(By the way I'm playing MI version)

[dagdriver]

Odd. Just happended again, this time musketfire took the taisho down.....

[Zone]

Maybe you could have the diaymo upgradeable. If his bodyguard weren't replaced after a battle and you had to replace them, you could retrain but during this time he would be susceptible to ninja attacks, say a trainer was really a spy?

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Fight first, ask questions later.

[Papewaio]

Sounds to much like Inspector Clousteau of the pink panther with the Daimyo being easier to kill if he is training...
might as well make him more easier to assassinate 3 seasons before "My Lord, your wife has given birth to a son" :P

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Victory first, Battle last.

[Khan7]

-just today, Imagawa was coming to reclaim his lost province of Totomi (inferior numbers and all-- truly a brilliant general ). I met his front with my Ashis, and soon enough my Sohei ripped up his flanks and they were all running. In the process of breaking backwards-horse-riding speed records, Imagawa got caught up in the midst of a bunch of my now victorious and somewhat, unsympathetic Monks. Ouch. There were 5 surviving bodyguards at the end.

-I have seen the Taisho die by missle fire many times, and just by the nature of the luck involved with that particular method of death he is usually not the last one. In fact I can't clearly recall any time where he has been the last one in such cases. This is also because this most frequently happens when he routs from crossing a bridge and has musketballs hissing all around.. whenever his unit runs, he hangs behind, so there 'ya go.

Matt

[P.S.: The first story was using non-standard stats in which Heavy Cav is notably less survivable.]

[solypsist]

Hmmmm..I have an idea, and just want to see if anyone else has done/tried this before I go thru alot of effort.
Does the Daimyos bodyguard replenish even if there are no other men in the banner?
My experiment: Fight a battle using only the Daimyo unit. Win. If the Daimyo is at less than full strength (11 men), retrain with available upgrades.
Can I do this? Or will the game simply not allow me to put the Daimyo in the training queue?

[barocca]

as soon as the battle ends the Daimyo's unit is 'replenished',
ah well.

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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon

[Matrix2]

Even if a unit is replenished, you can still retrain it. I'm not sure if it affects the daimyo bodyguard but i have got an upgrade with the samurai archers from silver to gold in armor with pure retraining that doesn't cost a koku.

[Papewaio]

You can't drag the daimyo's unit into the training queue period.

Other units that are full strength that are upgraded don't list a retraining cost... you just lose them from the attacking front lines for a turn.

Is the Hatamoto just Heavy Calvary or do they have some hidden bonus?

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Victory first, Battle last.