Results 1 to 9 of 9

Thread: castles and crusaders

  1. #1
    Member Member hooah's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003


    hello, I've been visiting a while and just wanted to get a couple of things off my chest. why do castles take so long to build? first of all, 4 years to build a wooden fort? and then a further 3 to build a motte and bailey making for 7 years? whats worse is that it takes 4 years, then 8, then 12, then 20, ie a total of 44 years to build a fortress The Krak of the Knights (described as the best preserved and most wholly admirable castle in the whole world) was built as a stronghold for the crusaders in the Holy Land and was built in half this time although continued to be developed afterwards. The way crusaders work in this game mean it is almost impossible to recreate this feat without a good deal of luck, as you need to occupy the province for over 40 years without ever losing it. And I realise one castle probably represents a network of them taking longer the build (although they could be built simultaneously anyway if the need was great enough) but in that case why are seiges over so quickly? (the above castle was designed to support 1000 men for 5 years under seige, and that was just one castle in a region that was fortified with several other castles almost as large). In MTW a fortress can last about 1 or 2 years when filled to capacity.
    Also why when two factions crusade against a province and one reaches it first, the other feels the need to go and ask the first to hand the province over peacefully (meaning they can then ransom the 'captured' army) or attack them? Crusaders (at least those trying to retake the Holy Land) worked together eg The Knights Templar gave the above castle into the care of the Knights Hospitaller and worked together to defend it from the Muslims.
    Considering that this game was originally going to focus mainly on the Crusaders these complications seem a little unfortunate.
    Other than that, great game, is lots of fun and largely is historically accurate as can be. I just want a big castle I spent years building to be a real obstacle instead of just something that collapses after a couple of years under seige, during which time the enemy would have to keep a large army in the province anyway to stop a loyalist revolt. You'd think you could give the beseiged army a chance to escape with their lives providing they hand the castle over intact if there is no chance of being rescued too, as happened innumerable times throughout history (or if you were the beseiged you could offer the castle for the lives of your men).
    Also, has anyone ever had one of the famous kings/emperors that you can play in the mini-campaigns in the main single player? I got the German Barbarossa guy (with the crazy red hair and green background) once leading my empire and since then I've been trying to organise heirs so that I get King Richard the Lionheart or at least someone with his portrait leading my crusades in the 1190s

    hehe, ok thats it

  2. #2


    So many things in the game are abstracted. I consider the Campaign Map play more of a beer and pretzels kind of game and not meant to be taken too seriously. My opinion anyway.

    Very good game nonetheless.

  3. #3


    Its just the way they did it for you wouldnt have Fortresses built in every providence in early years. Kinda a balance thing. NOt very realistic but what they did to keep things balance.

  4. #4
    Member Member Oberiko's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003


    I think a good option would be the ability to build a certain level of stronghold directly once you've teched up enough.

  5. #5
    Hope guides me Senior Member Hosakawa Tito's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Western New Yuck


    Hello hooah and Deerslayer ,welcome to our community. Don't be such a fence sitter hooah, tell us how you really feel. The game can be a real challenge, especially when you first play it. Keeps it from getting too easy, and thus, boring. Take a look around, there are some excellent strategies on this site. If you have any specific questions on game play just fire away. You are restricted to posting in this forum at the moment. After a day or two of interacting well with the fine peeps in this forum you will get promoted to allow you to post else where. Happy campaigning.
    "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." *Jim Elliot*

  6. #6
    Slapshooter Senior Member el_slapper's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Taverny, France


    The thing is too, that they focused all their efforts towards THAT krak...

    The Notre-Dame Cathedral in Paris, for example, required 1 1/2 century of efforts to be built.....

    In other words, times given are AVERAGE building times. It would be cool (and historical) to hurry buildings... for a BIG price.
    War is not about who is right, only about who is left

    Having a point of view upon everything is good
    Having a view upon every point is better

  7. #7
    Member Member SmokWawelski's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002


    I once suggested the idea of cutting some of the pre-buildings required for higher fortifications from the crusaider_prod file. Would you think that deciding if you should go for a castle/keep/fortress or nothing at the begining would be nice?
    It would still take some time to build that thing, and cost would stay the same. Since you could build these quicker, the defence value would maybe offset the short siege time, and the trick that some pople use to hold the castles longer: leave only 10 guys inside.

    Any thoughts on that?

  8. #8
    Member Member Mr Frost's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    In a chair


    Before I begin ; note : If you decide to modify the game , backup {make a copy and place it in a file you can find /will not accidently delete} just incase you goof up

    In the crusader_build_production 13.txt file you can alter all sorts of details in reguards to buildings . The order the information of each building entry is at the top of the text page in question {it still takes some patience to work out what is where , but most is fairly straight forward when you get used to it} .
    To alter the file {concider it simply instructions for the game itself to use in its' function} you simply alter what is typed in the correst place {eg: Forts cost 400 but you want them to cost 375 just find the cost entry and replace 400 with 375} .
    You could alter much about castles : want 1000 men in a Citadel {which is what Krak de Chevalliers is represented by} to last 5 years of seige ? You could up the capacity {this is what they refer to how many men can fit in this castle} so that 1000 will last five years {try 2500 as the capacity} .
    You want faster build times , you can alter this also to suit your wishes . Perhaps you might shorten the build times and increase the cost accordingly for the duration of your building those castrles in turn when you wish to simulate the event in question , then alter them back to their origonal values , though that would be a fair bit of buggering about

    A more ambitious project would be to create a new building {this would be rather time consuming} and use the Krak de Chevalliers map that someone {I cannot remember whom , though I remember they were well respected} created and can be found in downloads to be used in this building during seiges . You could set the costs high , the build time relatively short , and allow 2500 {or whatever} troop capacity . Call it a Krak rather than citadel and set the requirements as you wish {you could make it so you don't need any prior castle , though I'm not sure of what complications might arise if there is already , say a Fort present... you might need to destroy such first if you followed this path} and perhaps even play around with the improvements and most importantly .... only alow it to be built in that one province .
    A lot of work , granted , but I just wanted to show you it could be done and if you want to do it , you can ; just ask around the mod squad in the dungeon for help if you need it
    7 out of 10 people like me ,
    I'm not going to change for the other three .

  9. #9
    Member Member king steven's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Wessex, {The Home Of True Royalty}


    well if[B]u can't wait 44 yrs .worksundays. is your answer


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Single Sign On provided by vBSSO