Author: nokhor
Topic: gameplay issues
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nokhor
Samurai Hero

Posts: 110
From:
Registered: Apr 1999
posted 08-23-2002 03:55 AM

there was a rebellion in one of my provinces, and the rebels consisted only of 8 mangonels and 2 ballista. so obviously when the battle started, their crews just took off.
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indeed

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DrNo
Legendary Swordsman

Posts: 387
From:Nottingham,England
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 08-23-2002 09:48 AM

Target,Gil,ECS?
Seen a few people mentioning the high proportion of siege weapons popping up in a revolt.
I kinda think there should never be siege weapons in a revolting army, as the revolt is the attacking army isn't it like in STW?
Siege weapons would therefore be useless as they can't move (not sure on ballista's here)

The unit stats file has a column for revolts 'Rebelling Troop mixes this unit can belong to'. So to fix this prob it's just a case of removing this info for siege units.

Do you see any probs with doing so?


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DrNo
Legendary Swordsman

Posts: 387
From:Nottingham,England
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 08-23-2002 09:53 AM

Forgot to ask is there anywhere that dictates the number of units for the revolts and probability of a certain unit type beign involved compared to other units?
Is it possible for us to mod this ourselves?
I know it's proportional based on loyalty etc.. but the ability to make revolts easier or harder to deal with would be good.
In STW revolts were far too easy to deal with, and I kinda like the idea that some people have been really struggling with fighting revolting armies in MTW


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DarknScaly
Samurai

Posts: 98
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-23-2002 09:55 AM

I thought they'd fixed that...hmmm, obviously not ;-/
(seige weapons can be useful in attack though - the only thing is if the enemy deploy far back or move out of range they are then pretty useless. Having "some" in an army is handy - having "nothiing but" is a tad silly)

[tbh, for the patch, it would good if they could look at how the AI uses seige weaponry in attacks as well as this issue - can the AI not withdraw troops (such as seige engines) where they are out of range on an attack? though having said that it doesnt mean that they always stay out of range as the enemy may move into range.../em shrugs. All seige versus just 100 peasants = a loss for the rebels though. You just sit out of range and wait for timer to expire = a win for the peasants defending. Definately needs fixing]

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DrNo
Legendary Swordsman

Posts: 387
From:Nottingham,England
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 08-23-2002 01:21 PM

Rather than withdraw the troops it should move them away from the siege equip and use them as a melee unit, as they are better fighters than Peasents in 1 on 1.
Very good for flanking if that's all you have left to use.

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dancho
Ashigaru

Posts: 24
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-23-2002 01:49 PM

It's the usual story-- a Siege Weapon Convention takes place (SIEGE CON XI AT THE TOLEDO HILTON). There's some drinking. Things get out of hand...

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eat cold steel
Ronin

Posts: 6
From:CA, UK
Registered: Aug 2002
posted 08-23-2002 02:04 PM

> So to fix this prob it's just a case of removing this info for siege units
Yes it's as simple as that, but we didn't want to take them out completly, as the can be useful and adds colour to any army. The number in the bracket in troop mix is chances of that unit being avaliable to choose from. If the number is negative then it'll always be avalible to choose from (doesn't mean it'll get picked.) Once an list of 10 avaliable unit types are generated, an army is choosen at random from the list until the all the money is spent.
I'll add a cap in the code to limit the number of engines for the patch. If you really want to you can change the txt files yourselves but make sure you have a back-up, else you can't play multiplayer!

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DarknScaly
Samurai

Posts: 98
From:
Registered: Jul 2002
posted 08-23-2002 02:11 PM

Quote
Originally posted by DrNo:
Rather than withdraw the troops it should move them away from the siege equip and use them as a melee unit, as they are better fighters than Peasents in 1 on 1.
Very good for flanking if that's all you have left to use.
[/QUOTE]

Aye - i was thinking of my "favourite" issue where it has other units in reserve it "really should" use.

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Xiahou
Ronin

Posts: 19
From:
Registered: Aug 2002
posted 08-23-2002 02:27 PM

Well the real question for me is.. how do rebels get their hands on tons of seige equipment, when the vast majority of my provinces (including the ones where the revolt occurs) are still years from being able to build them? Really, how often are rebel forces more advanced than the forces they rebel against?
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the Count of Flanders
Legendary Swordsman

Posts: 309
From:Vlaanderen
Registered: Feb 2002
posted 08-23-2002 02:31 PM

Quote
Originally posted by Xiahou:
Well the real question for me is.. how do rebels get their hands on tons of seige equipment, when the vast majority of my provinces (including the ones where the revolt occurs) are still years from being able to build them? Really, how often are rebel forces more advanced than the forces they rebel against?
[/QUOTE]


Remember the Afghan rebels vs the USSR occupation troops. They all of the sudden had M-16's. surprise, surpise

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JZ Temple
Ronin

Posts: 15
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
posted 08-23-2002 02:37 PM

Quote
Originally posted by eat cold steel:
> So to fix this prob it's just a case of removing this info for siege units
Yes it's as simple as that, but we didn't want to take them out completly, as the can be useful and adds colour to any army. The number in the bracket in troop mix is chances of that unit being avaliable to choose from. If the number is negative then it'll always be avalible to choose from (doesn't mean it'll get picked.) Once an list of 10 avaliable unit types are generated, an army is choosen at random from the list until the all the money is spent.
[/QUOTE]

Can someone identify the text editing steps that can used to fix this problem till the patch is released?

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DrNo
Legendary Swordsman

Posts: 387
From:Nottingham,England
Registered: Oct 2000
posted 08-23-2002 03:09 PM

Quote
Originally posted by JZ Temple:
Can someone identify the text editing steps that can used to fix this problem till the patch is released?
[/QUOTE]

crusaders_unit_prod11.txt is the file you need to mod, but as ECS says make a backup first!!!!

The following is based on file with demo as I don't have the game yet:

Open the file with Excel and goto column K, should have heading:
'Rebelling Troop mixes this unit can belong to'

It should all make sense once here from what ECS said. If you don't want any siege weapons in rebelling armies then simply remove all the info for each siege unit.

e.g. TrebuchetCrew has this:

CATH_LOYALISTS(3), CATH_REBELS(2), MUS_LOYALISTS(1), ORTH_LOYALISTS(1)

remove it and no trebuchets should be picked by rebelling armies.

I think the cap is definetely the best way to go, so that people who want siege units in revolts can have them but not have too many.

Thanks ECS for the info it helps explain how units are chosen for Crusades and Jihads too.

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