Another topic on magically reappearing heirs.

[jeffreyLebowski]

I'm not one to usually whine about a game, but I've got to admit, the reappearing heir thing is getting ridiculous. You wipe out a faction, and then BAM, through no fault of your own, they reappear with better/more units than the original faction ever had... How is that fun? How is that even remotely realistic, especially in a game that touts its realism and historical accuracy.

If they gave some way for you to track their remaining heirs and assasinate them, that's one thing. Then it would be your fault if a faction reappeared. Or perhaps a message, "There are reports of an army being massed in territory X." But to just occur out of the blue is frustrating, lame, and basically my only complaint about what's an otherwise great game.

Basically, what myself and a lot of other players are saying is: give us some way to counter these uprisings or some feedback that its going to happen.

[+DOC+]

another bloody topic on this.

go read Eat Cold Steel's thread on explaining how this works please, then you'll understand how to combat this very good feature.



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=MizuDoc Otomo=

[jeffreyLebowski]

oh, i've read his post. and i'm not saying in any way that this feature should be eliminated. i agree that its a necessary feature for balanced play against the ai. what i AM complaining about is how shoddily its implemented.

note to all future designers: FORCED FAILURE PISSES GAME PLAYERS OFF.

there should be some way to stop this from occuring or fair warning given. also the composition of the reappearing faction's armies is ridiculous. whether you like this feature or not, there's no arguing that the units that comprise these armies are way above the tech level of the original faction and in way larger numbers. that = lame. sorry if you can't see it because you're too busy agreeing with anything a dev says on this board.

[Sanpedrito]

I like the feature...who wants to play a game that can be won within a few turns... Any way rebellions and re-emerging political systems are part of history. Republic style governments began with the Greeks disappeared with the resurgence of feudal lords.. and then re-emerged with the creation of our current political systems.

Anyway... I like a challenge don't you?

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Pain is temporary, but honor is forever !!!

[+DOC+]

>120% loyalty apparently stops heirs re-appearing.

Or play on a lower difficulty level.

2 very simple solutions.

I've never had a re-appearing heir.

[jeffreyLebowski]

i guess you guys aren't getting what i'm saying. i'm saying that this suffers from the same problem a lot of things in the turn based portion of this game does: a serious lack of available information. with the bug with the loyalty check and no way to know if any heirs remain from a faction, how in the hell are you supposed to take care of the problem? i don't think it even tells you in a tutorial or the manual what factors affect this. are we supposed to call upon the fates to grace us with this knowledge or what?

[+DOC+]

now that i can agree with the big lebowski!

documentation was very basic and available information could be better. As a consequence just make sure you are very careful if you decide to wipe out a faction and garrison their old territories sensibly.

Don't go rushing from province to province year after year. Take stock every now and then, build happiness improvements and crank out the spies.

[jeffreyLebowski]

you see, all mtw players eventually either agree, or take it out on the battlefield! hehehe.

[ToranagaSama]

Quote Originally posted by jeffreyLebowski:
i guess you guys aren't getting what i'm saying. i'm saying that this suffers from the same problem a lot of things in the turn based portion of this game does: a serious lack of available information. with the bug with the loyalty check and no way to know if any heirs remain from a faction, how in the hell are you supposed to take care of the problem? i don't think it even tells you in a tutorial or the manual what factors affect this. are we supposed to call upon the fates to grace us with this knowledge or what?[/QUOTE]

Absolute agreement!

Til these issue are resolved, follow two simple rules:

Loyalty below 200, watch each turn address asap.

Loyalty below 150, address immediately.

Its easy to do, though quite tedious.

I've experienced precisely One rebellion during my very first game.

Not a single, rebellion, respawn, Civil War, nor reappearing heir since.

Eat Cold Steel,

This may be the way to go. I think its the "surprise" factor. How about some notification. For example w. the respawning heir:

1st notice:
A Spy has reported that John Pain In The A has appeared in Provence. Word is he's making claim to the throne and is in the process of securing funds to raise an army.

An Option could also be:

a) Send Spy to locate John
b) Send Assasin to eliminate John
c) Cancel

Perhaps a little far-fetched for MTW,

d) Send Emmissary to Offer John Lands and Title

2nd notice:
John has secured funds and is in the process of raising an army.

[Option list above]

3rd notice:
John has raised an army and is marching on....

Wondering if we s/b informed of "where" join will reappear. I think not.

[Option list above]

I don't believe any further notice is necessary and game s/proceed as is, with John popping up with his army and a can of WompASS.

Similarly this could be applied to rebellions, all rebellions have a leader. Simply place the leader in John's place.

This opens up a whole nother level of play. Say John is being harboured in an Ally's lands.

Send an Emmissary to order your ally to send you John's head; turn John out; or you'll break the Alliance and March on his Capital!!

John's ability to raise funds s/b inhibited to a degree graduating with the success of your war with the Ally habouring John. Of course, if your losing the war then John's ability to raise funds gradually increases.

Sounds damn cool to me. Another ball in the air!!!

Of course, in the example of above John's harbourer doesn't need to be your ally.

So, whaddya think?

[dancho]

Keep in mind that there are no

telephones

telegraphs

railroads

steam ships

...so, messages go from place to place as fast as a person (or maybe a homing pigeon) can travel.

[Kraxis]

True dancho, but one whole year should be enough...

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BTW, Danish Crusades are true to history.

You may not care about war, but war cares about you!

[pdoan8]

So you will have to establish a chain of spy/assasin to where you want the message to go. And of course, these messangers have a whole year to go about.

[Cheetah]

PAF