Templars

[Blackball]

Howdy folks,

I'm reading a book by Umberto Eco at the moment, and if any of you have read his stuff, you know how arcane and just flat-out obscure some of his material can be, but in this particular book he's mentioned the Templars a couple of times. I'm assuming he's refering to the Knights Templar. Anyway, he references their burning at the stake in some year or another, and I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about their history - probably their later history? Were they tried as heretics or what?

[Stormer]

hmm well i know they were Feirce fighters, fearless and disiplined but they were questioned about their actual religious belief, as i think they were dedicated to saveing peasents etc, but i know they were questioned about how dedicated they were to what they were suppose to do, this not might be much help but the histroy fanatics on the guild will help you.

Welcome to the Guild btw

[Dîn-Heru]

Here are some links:

www.crystalinks.com/templars1.html

www.xyz.org/templars/

www.templarhistory.com/history.html

badger.cx/heraldry/militaryorders.html

[Blackball]

Wow. So technically, the Templars ought not to show up in crusader armies after 1307, from the sound of it. I thought their fall was much later than that.

Good stuff, thanks for the links.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Blackball @ May 01 2003,10:45)]Wow. So technically, the Templars ought not to show up in crusader armies after 1307, from the sound of it. I thought their fall was much later than that.

Good stuff, thanks for the links.

I didn't think they turned up in the Late Period...

[Emp. Conralius]

The Poor Fellow-Soldiers of Christ and the Temple of Solomon, or Knights Templar, were a military and religious order founded in Jerusalem during the Crusades. The founders were Hugh de Payns and Geoffroy de Saint-Omer, knights who established (1118) a religious community to protect pilgrims in the Holy Land. Baldwin II, Latin king of Jerusalem, gave them a dwelling on the ancient site of the Temple. Saint Bernard of Clairvaux drew up the order's rules, which included the notion of fighting the enemies of God under vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. The Templars, divided into knights, chaplains, sergeants, and craftsmen, were organized under a grand master and general council and were responsible only to the pope and not to secular rulers. Wearing a white cloak with a red cross, they attracted many nobles and soon became an expert military force and a powerful, wealthy order. In Europe their churches were often round, and their commanderies served as banks. After 1291, when the crusading forces were driven from Palestine, the Templars' main activity became bankingÑthe lending of money (even to kings)Ñand their enormous landholdings and financial strength aroused great hostility among rulers and clergy alike.

Philip IV of France, sorely in need of money, charged the Templars with heresy and immorality (1307). They were arrested and put on trial, and confessions were extracted by torture. Similar attacks were mounted against the order in Spain and England, and Pope Clement V, after initially opposing the trials, suppressed the Knights Templar by papal bull at the Council of Vienne in 1312. When the grand master, Jacques de Molay, and other leaders of the Templars retracted their forced confessions and declared their innocence and the innocence of the order, Philip had them burned at the stake in Paris on Mar. 18, 1314.

The Templars' holdings were dispersed, some going to the Knights Hospitalers and some to secular rulers, although Philip received none. The guilt of the Templars was hotly debated down to the 20th century. Most modern scholars, however, believe that the charges against them were fabricated.

As far as the game goes, I'de like to seea Templar infantry unit, similar to the Hospitaller foot knights.

[SmokWawelski]

Quite sad story. It is amasing how the diplomady and politics worked in the middle ages. Didn't similar story happened to the Knights of Malta (Maltanese Order SP?)?

[Stormer]

F**King King Philp killed the best trained knights in the world to get a bit of money Litte F**K.

[The_Emperor]

Quote[/b] (Stormer @ May 01 2003,14:25)]F**King King Philp killed the best trained knights in the world to get a bit of money Litte F**K.

Such was the way of Diplomacy back then... when in doubt charge them of heresy and have them burned. It worked for the English with Joan of Arc, and it worked for the French against these guys. (even if they never got the wealth in the end)

Too bad though the Knights Templar sound like they were awesome

[Dîn-Heru]

Quote[/b] (SmokWawelski @ May 01 2003,20:18)]Quite sad story. It is amasing how the diplomady and politics worked in the middle ages. Didn't similar story happened to the Knights of Malta (Maltanese Order SP?)?

I think they recived Malta, they were actually knights hospitaller, so that they wouldn't pose a threat in mainland Europe.

Here are some links about knights of Hospitaller of Malta:
www.orderofmalta.org.uk/history.htm

www.osjknights.btinternet.co.uk/oosj/history.htm

www.knightshospitaller.org/source/

historymedren.about.com/cs/hospitallers/

[SmokWawelski]

Interesting, I never knew that these two could be the same...

I visited their site and was asonished to see that teh main email contact resides on AOL? Also, the site is rather simple... Can't they do any better

[A.Saturnus]

An interesting detail is that de Molay cursed all who were involved in the trial. Within 7 years every single one of them died (or so I heard).

[Blackball]

Actually it was within a year, from what I've read. It's also said that when they were about to cut off Louis XIV's (I have no idea if that's the right number or not) head during the Revolution, somebody jumped onto the platform and shouted, Jacques de Molay, you are avenged

[Blackball]

This Umberto Eco novel's got a lot of info 'bout the Templars... I have no idea if it's all factual or not, but if it is, it's a damn interesting story.

The reason Phillip was after 'em was because they were basically a sovereign entity without a state; they answered only to the Pope, they owned massive amounts of land throughout France, Spain, and England, and they were quite wealthy. One of their temples even housed France's treasury, putting it more or less under Templar control, which the French monarch obviously would not be too keen on. Once Jerusalem finally fell for the last time, they basically lost their purpose; they were in existence to crusade to the Holy Land, but that proved impossible, so they basically just contented themselves with managing their wealth and making more.

Phillip got more and more wary of them, and eventually asked to be made an honorary Templar so he'd at least have some control of his own country's finances. They rejected the request, which apparently pissed him off greatly, and that's when he found some guys to make accusations against the Templars.

The weird thing about it is, of the six hundred or so knights arrested, not a single one of them resisted arrest, and five hundred and fifty of them confessed to heresy (in the form of spitting on the cross, denying Jesus, and so on during initiation rituals, as well as consorting with mystical Muslim sects). A few of the leaders, including de Molay, eventually retracted their confessions (which, in the eyes of the law at that time, made them perjurers), and they were burned at the stake and the order was disbanded. Most of the knights ended up filtering quietly into the Hospitallers or other orders.

[Longshanks]

Quote[/b] (A.Saturnus @ May 02 2003,09:04)]An interesting detail is that de Molay cursed all who were involved in the trial. Within 7 years every single one of them died (or so I heard).

De Molay procalimed his innocence while he was burning, and called out for both Pope Clement and King Philip to meet him before the throne of God within a year to answer for their crimes against the Knights Templar. Clement died a month later, and Philip died seven months after.