Unit Limmits in MP

[LordTed]

I shall get to the point.

When I play now I have a unit rule of max 4 of any type. Most people are cool with it, as they realise it balaces the games, stopping it turning into a 19th century gun fight. It also stops the chance of seeing 10 no dachi fly at you as most people keep to the limmits, but people have complained after the battle that with ONLY 4 guns they cannot do anything. I have always used 4 guns sometimes 3. Can this flexibilty to the game be gaurantied unless a unit could be restricted as a built in funtion. If you play with different types you learn stratagies quicker and as a whole become a more flexible player. Surely we must break the strangle hold guns have on our game.

[Rath]

You make very good points Ted but the problem is that there are a number of peeps, especially on the new server, who are more worried about winning than becoming better players...which does sound like a contradiction but hey i never said they were bright

At least with the old skool vets u still get a good balanced game, its just most of them arent on all that much

[barocca]

good idea Ted,
personally i prefer 2 guns only, because that gives you plenty of firepower and plenty of room for mellee combinations...

seriously peeps complained they couldn't do anything with ONLY 4 guns?
Shivers, i shoved a couple of campers off yamashiro with only 2 guns and 2 archers...
(you know, the big hill up the back, with limited approaches 'cause of the cliffs)

and Widda was a DEMON with NO guns! - he could crush gun heavys in a matter of minutes!!!

I faced Maggy a few times and he was without guns - i don't look very pretty with no ears, let me tell you!
(maggy, you promised you'd send 'em back to me...you did send them Registered post? right?)

you won't find many of the vets on much,
i got to taste the ashi/gun combo six games out of six on the new server and that was a big dissapointment...
so i took my bat and ball and went home in a sulk...

Seriously though, i only play clan mates and allies now... although if i ever spot you guys, LordTed and Rath, i'll sing out and you can give my lazy YariSams a one way ticket to elysium...


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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Puzz3D]

LordTed,

Unit limits are a good way to control the overuse of unbalnced units if everyone agrees. I played three 3v3 battles yesterday with a 4 gun limit, and in every case someone showed up with more than 4 guns. I think unit limits would have to be a feature of the game to really work.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[This message has been edited by Puzz3D (edited 10-23-2001).]

[Whitey]

I Hate guns, there really should have been a game option to play pre or post european intervention...

Only 4 guns? like a few here It pains me to hear that, I remember the days when 2 guns would suffice - nowadays 4 is essentail or you get blown apart by superior firepower

This is why when I play (and thats not often) it is always with the Mongol armies against other Mongols - true, it is not the test the original used to be however it is more fun than the slaughter that you get with the guns...

example - as a laugh I took 12 Musket units and 4 YS units in a 5000k battle, I destroyed a nice balanced army without really thinking...an immediate turn-off

I personally advocate a style of play that excludes guns entirely, and it used to work, nowadays that is simply not so (although it is even more fun when you manage to beat a gun/spear army I find myself migrating to extreme methods to do so, I have even been known to field Maggy's customary 4 CA units from time to time

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do anything...pick me to pieces with Cavalry Archers, ride me down with Heavy Cavalry, break my lines with No-Dachi, slaughter me on your Spears, hit me in the flank with Warrior Monks, ruin my attack with Naginata, finish the job with Yari Cavalry, shower me with arrows from your archers...but nama amida butsu...NO GUNS

4 guns are essential, and I play lots of multiplayer, and if you get less than that, unless you're a crazy terribly great player, you are in great danger of having a terrible game.

Tera

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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

[Whitey]

I'm great yeah...but terribly great may be pushing the boat out a bit

[BakaGaijin]

Guns are fun.

Seriously, though. Unless you're on a total camp-a-thon map, you should be able to take them down, especially if you brought guns of your own. It's all a matter of proper maneuver. If you can get units on the sides of the guns, you can threaten them with flanking. If they turn to fire at the guys on the flanks... oops, now the main group is on their flank! The best counter to guns are other guns and plus-honour units. 4-honour units can stand under gunfire for a while.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[NinjaKilla]

I play max of 5 in old Shoggy

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Clan Kenchikuka

[Whitey]

you expose high honour units to gunfire?

I tend to 'cover' his front with my guns and use almost my entire hth section as a single mass that I concentrate on his weakest area - you'd be surprised how few players charge guns effectivly with cavalry (one close range volley routes most cav units people bring...and no, the fools don't tend to flank)

I try to keep my entire force out of range (and not in the line of fire of) the enemy guns while his sits 'picks up strays' on the edge of the map

[tootee]

Guns or no gun, having an option to limit the size of different units is a very good idea. At least when I join a battle, I know how many guns my opponents are bringing max. CA should really consider adding this feature to the alpha patch. Shouldn't be too much work for them! Anyway this feature probably will be included in the new Crusader Total War, so might as well test it out now on MI.

Target?



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tootee the toothless warrior (aka goldfish shimazu)
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[Erado San]

I would appreciate the option to set limits to the umber of units of 1 type, but it is very unlikely that this will happen. Ther is more to it then just setting a number here or there.

It's good to know the patch is still undergoing development, and I expect better balanced units.

[LordTed]

good

[Shoko]

Here here!! maybe EA will set a limit for u mad gunners out there
Makeing the game more balanced and tactical instead of just shooting the **** out of each other...somettimes fun though

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Shoko Emperor
Die by the Sword

[BakaGaijin]

Whitey: No, I don't mean that I sit my high-honour troops in front of the guns to get slaughtered. =/ I mean that I use high-honour troops because they're less likely to be routed by gunfire. Better for those cases when the enemy actually uses one or two units of guns to protect his flank instead of stuffing them all out in front.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Whitey]

ah! - I had this mad vision of someone arraying their elite warrior monks in gunfire range and watching them dress ranks just for kicks

I play 5 max of each type in any game.

Most times I don't get even more than 4.

Tera

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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

[tootee]

Max 3 musk for me.. hate using more than that...

[LordTed]

Tell that to new players who have a dependancy on guns. On old STW they didnt because they were not a potent weapon.

[This message has been edited by LordTed (edited 10-25-2001).]

Quote Originally posted by LordTed:
On old STW they didnt because they were not a potent weapon.[/QUOTE]

Well...they always have been the most unbalanced unit along with the monk...



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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

[evilc]

oh stw i only brought 2/3 guns and didnt loose too much, now i do have to bring 3/4 or i loose, guns are boring after a while though, its just bang bang bang bang, run away,rest of army follows, end.

[MIZILUS]

Yes the games these days are more gunfights than battles.. I too am very tired of this. It is no fun at all to me to sit most of a game waiting for whoever has more guns to out shoot the other, then there is a mad charge that is more often than not defeated by those same gun bums...sucks.

[LordTed]

Although all these guns put up to a new level of tactics of how to deal with them with less guns ur self.

[Puzz3D]

MIZILUS,

Nice phase: "gun bums". The dominance of guns does make all that rock, paper, scissors stuff kind of useless. OTOH, you can't really fault players for taking lots of the most effect unit. It wouldn't be smart to do otherwise. Maybe time for a test to see just how much better guns are in WE/MI over STW. The important thing is that we need to get guns in the online game toned down to restore variety to the gameplay. Either that or just make them really expensive. Voluntary gun limit is the way to go for now.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan TAkiyama ~~~