what units would you like to see in RTW?

[Leet Eriksson]

This could be interesting,but list any units you'd like to see in RTW,but keep it realistic(ie in the timespan of 300BC to 14AD)for now i'll mention just a few:

Parthian Cataphracts(Parthia)

Balearic Slingers(Carthage and Rome)

Anatolian Hillsmen(Greeks)

Syrian Archers(Rome)ok its getting boring...

Egyptian Slaves(Egypt,and yeah i want loads of em)

German Heavy Cavalry(Germans and probably Guals)

Merrymen(Rebel,Discription:They rob from the rich,and the poor when they can't rob from the rich )

Brigands(Rebel)

Bandits(Rebel)

Celtic Warriors(Celts and Carthage)

Iberian Swordsmen(Carthage and Iberia if it was a playable Faction,they also weild the Falcata)

ok thats all probably until i do more research.

[Stormer]

All of them

[Nowake]

Well, try following your rules



You see, the germans fought mainly on foot, even the leaders, as they were too poor to keep a horse ... they used bludgeons instead of swords for the same reason ...

There are many units there that don't belong, but i won't argue anymore ... for now

[Leet Eriksson]

I thought the germans excelled at using cavalry,or is that in the wrong timeframe?

[Longshanks]

Both the Germans and Gauls did have good cavalry during the time period of the game, it just wasn't heavy cavalry. Julius Caesar thought highly of the German cavalry when he was fighting them in Gaul. He even used them as auxiliaries in his own army, although he supplied them with Italian horses rather than German ones, which he thought were inferior.

[Longshanks]

Some units I would like to see...

Aeduan Horse(the Aedui tribe had the best cavalry in all of Gaul)
Belearic slingers
Syrian archers
Suebic(Germanic) light horse...basically 2 men on a horse, when they engage the enemy one jumps off and fights as light infantry.
Jewish Zealots...a particulary fanatical rebel unit should Judaea revolt
Brittonic charioteers
Carthaginian Sacred Band...the elite of the Carthaginian army, native Phoenician/Carthagian troops who fought in Greek fashion

[PSYCHO]

Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ May 10 2003,16:38)]Some units I would like to see...

Jewish Zealots...a particulary fanatical rebel unit should Judaea revolt

And the Jewish Sicarii ... another factional unit

Cheers

[Hakonarson]

There were more Jewish factions than there were Roman Gods

German cavalry was noted for having attached light infantry tht enabled them to defeat Gallic cavalry - they also thought that cavalry using saddles were effeminate & charged them on sight - they had a considerable morale advantage over Gallic cavalry

However they weren't the only ones who did this - spainsh "long shield" cavalry and some Greek states also used light infantry to support their cavalry, and the Romans may have done so on occasion too.

Others:

Chatti "iron collar wearers" - the bravest Chatti warriors (a German tribe) wore iron collars & fought in the front ranks - much like berserkers possibly, but keeping tight formation.

Gaestati - Gallic mercenaries fighting naked, wiped out at Telamon in 225BC

Sarmatian cataphracts in horn and leather armour - charging with the Kontos

Scythed chariots - for Seleucids, Galatians (captured from Seleucids) and Pontic (Mithridates & Pharnaces) armies.

Elephants - African and Indian, with appropriate differences

Slingers - Greek, Balaeric, Syrian, Jewish, British

Ex-slave pikement - Pontic, Egyptian

Argyraspide "Imitation Legionaries" for the Seleucids - pikemen rearmed and retrained to imitate Romans

Pythagorus's engines for defending Syracuse including concave mirrors focusing on Roman galleys and setting them on fire

[CBR]

I just want my burning pigs

CBR

[Hakonarson]

So head to the local pork roast joint

[Catiline]

THe Romans in he empire used mixed foot and cavalry units, not sure it's appropriate for the Republic. THe Greek units that fought like that were called hammipoi. Infantry moved swiftly by hanging on to tails and manes, and givng a significant advantage in cavalry combat by slicing open bellies and sclicing hamstrings. Was presumably a very dangerous occupation though. Would be great if CA could implement these though.

[Leet Eriksson]

IIRC the jews also had Medianite Arabs in their ranks,most of them were javelineers or camel archers,whats uniqe though was the camel archers had 2 archers instead of one.But i don't beleive they existed in that time frame..

[Hakonarson]

Catiline there are accounts of Velites supporting Equites in the 2nd Punic War along the same lines as the hammipoi (thanks for hte name&#33.

The mixed cohortes of horse and foot were cohors equitatae IIRC - they didn't operate like this but were seperate units brigaded together - often comprising border garrisons where the mixture of horse and foot was very useful for patrolling and garrison duties rolled in together.

Midianite arab camels with 2 archers are from Assyrian reliefs and are thought to represent a temporary shortage of camels due to constant Assyrian raids against the tribes.

[AvramL]

I would like to see an accurate representation of the german Heartweru or proffesional warriors who accompanied their chieftain in battle and were noted for their bravery, loyalty (it was a grave dishonor to survive a fight in which the man you swore oath to did not) and individual skill at arms. The cream of German armies(hosts really) were made up of these men while the rest would typically be some form of levy such as the Anglo-Saxon fyrd, it was only by the inclusion of such militia that Germanic hosts were able to match or perhaps surpass the numbers of Roman armies .Roman accounts of battles with germanic tribes tend to grossly overestimate the number of enemy combatants. particularily when one considers the rural life of these people, probably in order to emphasize the Roman victory or to lessen the humiliation of defeat.

[Rosacrux]

Quote[/b] (Hakonarson @ May 11 2003,21:18)]Pythagorus's engines for defending Syracuse including concave mirrors focusing on Roman galleys and setting them on fire

Hmmm... maybe you are mistaking Pythagoras for Archimedes? Pythagoras AFAIK is an extremely interesting philosopher, but he didn't invent much in the machinery field

As for the units... give me all the Greek units there are:

Give me

- Hoplites (various elite hoplites besides the Spartan apply as well... think of Theban Sacred Band, for instance)

- Phalangites (pezeteroi... you know, Alexander's pikemen)

- Hetairoi (Alex's ultra effective heavy cav... best heavy cav of the antiquity)

- Romphaiofori (late antiquity Greek heavy infantry weilding glaives)

- Seleukid kataphrakti (the first kataphracts of the west)

- hypaspists (the ultra-elite phalangites of Alex's army)

- Cretan toxotes (the best Archers of the ancient world came from the island of Crete).

Oh, there are so many I could go on for ages...

[Leet Eriksson]

The best archers in the ancient world were the Nubians they were so feared the arabs gave them the nickname Archers of the eye,becuase almost all of their targets had an arrow in their eye(not to mention the arab invasion of sudan,were the nubians killed 150 arabs with an arrow in their eye&#33.The egyptians used them alot,but so did most factions in ancient times(there were alot of nubian mercenaries).

[Longshanks]

AvramL, the Romans like all ancient peoples certainly exaggerated a little on their accounts of battles. In most encounters with the Britons, Gauls or Germans, the Romans would still have been significantly outnumbered though.

[Vlad The Impaler]

I would like to see an entire dacian/getic faction with some special units like :

ktisai : religious mounted on horse warriors

bastrane auxiliarii : germanic mounted warrior allies of the dacian kings

dacian infantry : bows and long spears with the dacian flag ( that would be very cool ) wolf head + dragon/snake tail.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (Vlad The Impaler @ May 19 2003,02:10)]I would like to see an entire dacian/getic faction with some special units like :

ktisai : religious mounted on horse warriors

bastrane auxiliarii : germanic mounted warrior allies of the dacian kings

dacian infantry : bows and long spears with the dacian flag ( that would be very cool ) wolf head + dragon/snake tail.

Then you'd better take a look at this, Vlad ... this is a description posted by me at .com, where we had a heated debate about including the dacians and jews ... I think it was a bet between me and Oberiko, if I remember corectly ... Anyway, this unit tree is very hystorically accurate, I can asure you ...

Pileati Guards: raised from among the tarabostes families, these men were trained from infancy to act as personal bodyguards and elite cavalry. They owed loyalty only to the royal family, and they lacked in "praetorian initiatives" ; best horses, best armour and best weapons were available to them, as for that the falces (dacian huge straight swords) being prefered. On the battlefield they carried the royal dracones and were completely reliable and disciplined.

Kogaionons' Pleistoi: also called the "foundators", "gods' worshipers", "walkers on smoke", this sect of dacian monks, who weren't consuming meat, didn't have sexual relations and practiced some form of oriental mysteria, was giving its full allegiance to the royalty; defenders of the Koganoions (sacred mountains), the pleistoi (the best) comprised men from the elite dacian society, and the king was often their "pontifex maximus"; armed with falces and bows, well-armoured, and, as the legends say, bringing war-trained faulcons with them, they were small elite cavalry units, true zealots and followers of Zalmoxes. They were completely reliable and disciplined
in battle.
- I'd like to mention a quote from Flavius Josephus, refering to the eseni hebrew sect: "and those live (the eseni) in a way that doesn't differ by any means, but it's mainly aproaching the life-style of those dacians called pleistoi (the best)", in his book "Judaic Antiquities" (sp?), (XVIII, 1, 5);

Tarabostes: these cavalry contingents were provided by the tarabostes' families and comprised good warriors, the main volunteer force for the often pillage raids; armed with siccae (the most common dacian sword, not very long and curved), round shields, lances and bows, well-armoured, they formed the medium dacian cavalry, even though their numbers were not very large.

Comati Cavalry: recruited from among the free dacian tribal comunities; their equipment consisted from helm, leather armour, siccae, round shield, bow and horse; they were a very flexible fighting force, able to execute fast envelopment maneuvres on the battlefield. Also, they were used mainly in harrasment missions, as their numbers were small - few comati could afford keeping a horse. Brave and superstitious, they are completely reliable if the gods' signs are in their favour.

Sarmatian Cavalry: consisting from mercenary detachments of roxolans, iazygi, marcomans and alans, these light cavalry units comprise excelent bowmen and horsemen, used with harsh skirmishes and able to lay organised ambushes; their short spears and swords allow them to perform equally well in melee. A somewhat impetuous character makes them a bit unreliable.

Comati Infantry: the pedestrian equivalent of the Comati Cavalry, they have the same origins and weapons, and formed the backbone of the dacian army; tough and reliable, their tactics prefere the cover of the hoods, from where they lash out to confront death. Wielding the famous dracones (the dacian tribal flag, consisting from a wolf-headed dragon on top of a spear - when the dacians attacked, the wind blowing through the wolf's mouth seemed like the howl of a real wolf, instilling fear in the enemyes), the comati were rather disciplined when compared with other european tribal warriors.

Dacian Highlanders: living in the Carpathian mountains, these men were not usually summoned, mainly because of their independent spirit; they were mainly sheperds and hunters; when the war called upon them, the highlanders were used as shock troops; their weapons consist in falces or bludgeons, and a bow or javelins; also they wear leather armour. Their tactics favoured ambushes and sudden blows. Reckless and superstitious, they are indeed brave and loyal in harsh situations.

Also, the dacians used batering rams, catapults etc. Their fortresses, called dava, were more than impressive, and the fortified sistem located in Orastia mountains stands as proof ...

[Hakonarson]

Quote[/b] (Longshanks @ May 17 2003,04:30)]AvramL, the Romans like all ancient peoples certainly exaggerated a little on their accounts of battles. In most encounters with the Britons, Gauls or Germans, the Romans would still have been significantly outnumbered though.

Someone was posting about this on the Society of Ancients mailing list (ancmed on Yahoo groups if you want to join/look it up) recently specifically about Caesar in Gaul - the comment was that given the logistic apparatus of the romans and Gauls it was likely that the Romans outnumbered the Gauls in most major engagements.

The only exception that was noted was Alesia - the one time the Gauls made specific provision to feed large numbers of troops for a significant time.