Incompetent Danes

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Well, this maybe chance, but i've played a number of single player campaigns now, and every time by the time i get to have contact with the Danes, they're already in terminal decline - and it ain't about aggression from Germany, neither, its about nearly all of their provinces (including most of their home provinces) going rebel Are the AI Danish kings just all incompetent fools, or have they only been inbreds in my games?

[MalibuMan]

I think I've only ever had one game in which the Danes held their own at all, but in that game they presented a serious challenge to the Germans

But yeah, every other time they get stomped on. They usually don't go for Sweden early enough.

[Dîn-Heru]

The Danes tend to go broke after a while, and often just sit in Denmark doing nothing. But I have also seen the Danes conquer much of Northern Europe and to Poland, so they can become a power factor.

If most of their provinces turned rebel, then they might have experienced a civil war. So it could just have been a stroke of bad luck.

[Heraclius]

in every single game I've seen the Danes manage to conquer Scandivia 9soemtimes) and then get crushed. They go broke quite easily for a number of reasons including owning ony one small, poor province and an abundance of expensive heirs but if you want the Danes to be a serious power, and the game to be even better than it already is, you should download the Wes W medieval mod. It really made a difference for me and I cna't wait till he does one for VI. I kind of sound like a salesman hear but its a great mod.

[Skie Mirror Silvanoshei]

The Danes are always weak and they usually are eliminated early in my games.

[ChaosLord]

They're more a victim of circumstance then anything else. With how they're setup in un-modded M:TW there isn't much oppurunity for the AI. They don't make enough cash to support a decent army and there aren't any easy pickings nearby. The only time i've really seen them succeed is using an army of heirs to hit HRE or finally take Norway/Sweden.

Now when thats changed around some, give them say Norway like in WesW's mod, they do pretty well. Heres an image of them in one of my campaigns.



And if that wasn't enough, they also had the largest armies, beating out me(Aragonese) and the Byzantines. Most of their stacks I saw had around 1/3 Vikings in them, which tear through people early on. I've seen them do well in other games with the mod too. If you haven't yet, i'd suggest you try the mod, it improves how all factions play and enables the Sicilians/Hungarians/Aragonese for play as well. Theres some changing in unit requirements/stats though, just to warn you. I didn't find any that bothered me, made it play better if anything.

It is only for vanilla M:TW though, can't use it with other mods(I think) and no VI version yet.

[KyodaiSteeleye]

Mmmm - may try that, ta.

Guess it doesn't work with the patch then?

[Doug-Thompson]

Another contributing factor is probably a lack of heirs.

Starting out as a small, weak province hemmed in by the Holy Roman Empire, Danish princes don't exactly have suitors swooning at their front steps.

While playing the Danes, I've noticed that my princes didn't get many proposals until the Danes were quite powerful. All the heirs were produced by the king, and even he had to marry within the local aristocracy.

So, if one Danish king dies with no male heirs, and his younger brother ascends to the throne without even being married yet, complete disentegration is close.

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As an aside, I like the Danes. I wish I'd started playing this game with them instead of the Egyptians.

They are small and have to bide their time. Starting with the Danes teaches both patience and the need to grab an opportunity quickly. They also teach the importance of trade routes, and how to establish them.

[ChaosLord]

Sorry Kyodai, that mod does work with the patch. I just meant it probably didn't with other mods/expansion.

Download link for WesW's mod

If you do get it, be sure to read all the changes so you aren't suprised by anything.

[Heraclius]

Quote[/b] (Doug-Thompson @ May 15 2003,14:24)]Another contributing factor is probably a lack of heirs.

I always thought that an over abundance of heirs was the Danes problem. In un-modded MTW, I'm a WesW man myself,
they are cooped up in one tiny poor province and their king keeps producing heirs, who come with a unit of expensive royal knights. Whenever I find myself playing as the Danes or just observing them as another faction they end up with 8 units of royal knights crammed into Denmark and subsequently a negative cashlfow. Long story short: download the Wes W mod. It helps make a great game even better

[Doug-Thompson]

Re: Too many heirs. A bunch of layabouts who won't leave home and get married.

I'd argue we're both right: There's a bunch of expensive male heirs who do initial damage, but it's the princesses who aren't beating a path to the door to the poor province that's a problem, too.

[Heraclius]

agreed