monks and the beta patch

[barocca]

Is it just me or have they reduced monk morale?

playing online over the last few days i had an endless line of 50+ strong h3 and h4 monks streaming to the rear faster than ashigaru on speed every time they took a direct salvo from a gun....

although they rally quickly they have often left some poor yari sam or no-dachi hanging in the breeze,
and by the time they return to the fray - game's over dude!

i mean monks and yari sam advancing side by side - and the monks break first? after one salvo? with losses less than 10?

(had 3xh4 monk's break with losses of 4, 5 and 4, yet the h3 Yari Sams on their flanks and the h1 Dachi advancing behind them held firm - only to be slaughtered by the enemy center)

played a game or two of original stw, and monks act as i expected in those!

so have they reduced the natural morale bonus for monks in the beta patch?
if so - it's too much of a reduction!

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did i mention that in all cases the monks were charging downhill onto inferior troops?
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DoragonBarocca of Clan Doragon

[This message has been edited by barocca (edited 11-04-2001).]

[Sjakihata]

I do not know if they have reduced the morale. But what I do know is, that monk and No-dachi morale is the same !!! I think your problem was that u engaged a supiriour enemy, and then monks some times do run away.

I was fighting a regular totomi, as attacker!
And I charged his flank, with monks, and the front with No-dachis and yari samurai. The monks broke first with regiments of 30, 20, 40 and 45 I think. if they had not broked, I would have won...!!! I think it is ok to run, but NOT if the success is in sight

Sjak.

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"-Know your self, know your enemy and your victory will be painless.
-Know the weather, know the terrain and your victory will be complete."
-Sun Tzu(Wu), The Art of War.

[BakaGaijin]

See? Ya gotta pump up the honour on those monkies. =)

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

Nodachi hon3 wep1 are a few cents cheaper but they're sooo good.

Trash the monkies...altough a monk/nods combo is really tough to beat.

Tera

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Honour to Clan Torîi Aku.

Visit my resource centre here!
Evil is within us...

[Erado San]

They haven't reduced morale, but the units fatigue too soon at the moment. The cause of this is now known and they are working on improvements.

[TakeshidaSo]

*Cough*

[BakaGaijin]

*hands Take a lozenge*

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Sjakihata]

Erado San!

I can agree with that!!!

Just played a castle map, two attackers and one defender! It was snow and that helps the fatigue pretty well... I would let my upgraded kensai into the castle to wreck havoc upon the musks and monks... but after he arrived (only the short distance, from start pos. 2 castle, I set him as close as possible to the castle!) he was "totaly exhausted" !!! I think that was pretty bad.. Also my monks were exhausted when the havnt gone any where !!! The just standing still and got exhausted, it was in heavy snow, but any way!!!

sjak.

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"-Know your self, know your enemy and your victory will be painless.
-Know the weather, know the terrain and your victory will be complete."
-Sun Tzu(Wu), The Art of War.

[Hosakawa Tito]

They must have forgotten their thermal underwear and galoshes

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Diplomacy is the art of telling someone to go to hell so that they look forward to making the trip.

[Puzz3D]

barocca,

Check out my post in this thread: http://www.totalwar.org/ubb/Forum5/HTML/000191.html

I think monk morale in WE/MI v1.01 and STW is the same. It's hard to explain why your monks routed with so few casualties, but lots of effects add up to lower morale. When fatigue gets to "very tired", it lowers morale. I also think sustaining casualties all at once from a gun volley has a much bigger adverse effect on morale than sustaining them at a slower rate in melee. This may be where the "morale penalty" from guns comes from. Guns are stronger in WE/MI than they were in STW. The morale loss due to casualties seems to be dynamic, as a unit will recover morale if it stops taking casualties. There are also negative effects due to proximity to enemy units, and, of course, from being flanked.

One note about the post I refered you to. The transition points: uncertain, wavering and routing were moved up considerably by the v1.01 patch. I don't remember where they fall now, but it's much higher on the scale.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[Lord Toranoga]

Does anyone know when the next version of the patch might be ready?

[Puzz3D]

I'm not sure what it means to "know" when something "might" happen. I don't think there are any deadlines, but work on the patch does continue. I believe the result will be well worth the wait.

MizuYuuki ~~~
Clan Takiyama ~~~

[SlackerXS]

one battle I fought today... showed extreme Monk Power!

Player Name:: Rebels
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Player Type:: CPU
Clan:: REBELS
Stance:: Defender
Koku Allocated:: 0
Koku Spent:: 0
Number of Units:: 17
Total Troop Count:: 1020
Total Men Killed:: 169
Total Men Lost:: 410


General's Rank:: 0

Player Name:: Oda
-----------------
Player Type:: HUMAN
Clan:: ODA
Stance:: Attacker
Koku Allocated:: 0
Koku Spent:: 0
Number of Units:: 6
Total Troop Count:: 360
Total Men Killed:: 406
Total Men Lost:: 169

General's Rank:: 3

Unit Type: WarrMonk
Is General: NO
Is Daimyo: NO
Leader Name: Asakura Hisanobu
Kills This Battle: 127
Losses This Battle: 15

Unit Type: WarrMonk
Is General: NO
Is Daimyo: NO
Leader Name: Kitabatake Tadatsune
Kills This Battle: 139
Losses This Battle: 6


good stuff~

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SlackER ~ Extreme

[This message has been edited by SlackerXS (edited 11-07-2001).]

[Vanya]

If you are playing with the 1.01 Beta patch for WE/MI, you can do this... (you will be impressed at the results!):

Arrange your monks before battle as you normally would. When battle starts, start chanting this line over an over again in a monotone, stable voice:

Nam myojo renge kyo

When saying the kyo, let the 'o' draw out over several seconds. Then pause and repeat.

Now, while you are chanting, charge your monks into the fray.

This line is used for meditation. So, you will be at peace with your surroundings despite the raging battle before you. Your monks will perform admirably knowing you are sound of mind when you give them the order that will likely lead to their swift ascension to Nirvana...

I do this all the time, and my monks NEVER rout... even when charging head-first into legions of lead-spitting musketeers! My monks ONLY rout when I fail to chant...






[This message has been edited by Vanya (edited 11-07-2001).]

[Whitey]

at last!

the secrets of warrior monks revealed...


Nam myojo renge kyoooooooooooooooooooo

Nam myojo renge kyoooooooooooooooooooo

Nam myojo renge kyoooooooooooooooooooo

IT WORKS!!!IT WORKS!!! (damn, lost concentration - they're running, they're routing!!!)

[BakaGaijin]

Yes, the chants are also the secret to the negative morale effect monks have on enemy units. Face it, hearing that chanted over and over by hundreds of voices sounds like some variety of unholy chorus to many ears (mine included, and I think of myself as very open to varied religions). It's just creepy.

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Scotticus TheGreat]

You use chants too?

I use this chant, the self help book said to say it really fast, but I always seem to lose? Oh well, must... try...harder.

ima, lose her!
ima, lose her!
ima, lose her!

I dunno, you try.

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Life doesn't seem through bad with Led Zepplin floating through the ears

[This message has been edited by Scotticus TheGreat (edited 11-10-2001).]