I was thinking about doing an American Civil war mod for Warlord Edition. I know this is the general forum, not the mod forum, but I'm just asking for opinions... Does it sound like a good idea? It'd have infantry, cavalry, artillery, and sharpshooters as well as(If I got ambitious and a few other people to help me) accuratley designed maps of real battlefields (Gettysburg, Antietem, etc.)
Whadya think?
War is not a crime, it is an art.
Hmmmmmmmmmm........ Khan7? Care to take a shot at this one?
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Obake
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Obake
Never argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level, then beat you with experience.
Sounds great but why not Wild West?
I wouldn't do wild west mainly because it wouldn't involve big battles like the civil war. However, for civil war, evey unit will now be equipped with guns (Of varying range/quality) as well as swords/bayonets for hand to hand combat.
War is not a crime, it is an art.
Dude, I already have an ACW mod. I spent mannnnny hours on it. Got it to the point where it would be difficult, with the current engine and available tools, to get the simulation any more accurate.
There is, however, one problem-- NO ONE LIKED IT. I myself would even have to admit that it wasn't THAT fun. The STW engine is simply not good for this era of combat. In particular I might mention that the maps are too friggin small for the range of the weapons.
Of course I dunno, my ACW mod might be better than I give it credit for, but at any rate it never caught on or recieved any real recognition. This could simply be due to the natural resistance that most people in the community have to altering their nice little game, and really a lack of interest in using the engine for anything other than the game as it is. Also the fact that the community is essentially dead on the water (especially lately), and has always been very small, so that the disinterest of a majority leaves too few to bring anything forward as a minority trend.
Anyway, you'll find the Mod and my other work linked from my sig below.
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-Matt
Visit the Center for the Enrichment of Shogun Total War here.
//P.S.: Cancel that. Actually, there were maybe 2 or 3 people who liked it. But at the time I was rather busy, in addition to being miffed at the general reception it was getting, so I never even attempted to really go much farther with it. 2 or 3 is a rather small group anyway.//
[This message has been edited by Khan7 (edited 11-12-2001).]
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I liked the mod kahn, but I don't play modded stats online - it was good fun...
Have you seen the fnords?
Well, i'll be downloading it and I'll tell ya how it is.
War is not a crime, it is an art.
I think that the STW engine works until widespread rifled weapons make melees rare and mounted cavalry actions an anachronism. The range is just so great and the defender has it all over the attacker to a greater degree than even Shogun portrays. Up until 1850 I'd say the system could work although artillery range is still pretty long.
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.
I downloaded it, but the only noticebale change seems to be the Thunderbombers extremley long range(Cannon, obviously)
All text is still the same, the battles are still the same, etc... Am I starting it the wrong way?
War is not a crime, it is an art.
jas-- Read the ReadMe. That's why it's called a ReadMe. Then come talk to me.
Have you specifically tried it out Nelson? Because I can tell you that though criticism is due, yours is totally off. I'm sure some others who have played the mod will verify that the defender does not by any means have an undue advantage.
Really IMO it's the map size that limits the flavor of battles, just not enough room to manuever. Also many of the command and control idiosyncracies of Shogun are insufficient or inappropriate for the Civil War. Plus I was working alone with only the shoestring of tools that were provided for game modification, so no graphics or sound editing was done, though I edited text as best I could. But the mod could certainly have been more aesthetically pleasing.
Matt
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khan7 is correct about the graphics and sprites. no one has cracked these yet to make the units blue and gray. and he's also right about the engine somewhat limiting the eras that can modded for. once you start moving out of the musket class to the rifle class, the engine starts more or less becoming useless. you could, though, with mods to the sprites, turn cav into tanks, ninja into machine gunners, thunder bombers into grenadiers, muskets into rifles and so on, but yer also limited in tools and stat options and game eras.
i never tried your civil war mod, khan7, but i did look at your stats for the 'real deal' and i see you did some interesting things there. nice work.
btw, guys, it's a real hoot to set thunder bombers to fire 10 tiles away :)
K.
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I'm sorry, but i never apologize.
Khan7, I haven't played your mod and I probably should have said so. My comments were not directed at your efforts. In fact, I was agreeing with you about the unsuitability of the engine for the era since it was designed for a game where melee combat is more important than fire combat. Civil War battles were not known for their great melees. Even cav actions were gunfights.
Time flies like the wind. Fruit flies like bananas.
why not make an middle-earth (fantasy mod) as said b4 for about a 1000 times ...
Abandon all hope.
Actually-- Civil War battles WERE known for FREQUENT melees. Granted these did not make up the main body of the battle, and they did not occur in every battle. But they were a very useful tool, if used correctly. To neglect melees in the Civil War is to deprive yourself of a critical and potentially decisive tool.
But don't worry Nelson, I didn't take your comments as seeking to detract, I just was thinking they were perhaps misdirected. No problems, especially since none of us can be well-versed in *all* eras and types of combat.
Actually, to get back to the melee issue, you can see melees, or the extremely-close-range equivalent thereof, still being not uncommon even today. At least through WW2 and Korea and Vietnam we see plenty of examples. Though of course these were not melees in the strict STW sense. ACW melees frequently were, though.
Oh well, I suppose that's a bit of a military history tangent..
Matt
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One thing which would be great to see is cannons blasting away at fortifications but I don't know if you can produce a mod which will allow scenery to be blown up. Just to see a castle siege and the effects on the inhabitants would be awesome!
Did you take down the Civil War mod?... I can't find the page anymore...
SlackER ~ Extreme
for some strange reason
this page showed up instead... http://www.freewebsites.com/error_lang.html
SlackER ~ Extreme
In other news, I did already start my mod, and it's going pretty well. The graphics are not done yet, but all the names, etc. have been changed, and now EVERY unit has a gun, or a cannon, etc. Melees are still VERY present, as I will describe in my first test battle. Pleasse remember thats its not even near done yet, I was just testing it.
I did sort of a test battle as "pickets charge" (Except reverse. Confederate was defneding, union was charging.)
It started out well. My confederates had 5 cannon battery loaded and waiting for orders. I had some skirmishers about 100 feet in front of them in a loose formation with the skirmish order, hoping they would break apart the attackers when they got close, then retreat behind the cannon line again. Behind the cannons I had my confederate army, everything from my "Regular infantry" to my "Draftee Infantry" to my militia all lined up being told to hold positions, without firing yet. I had one heavy cavalry unit in wedge formation about 100 feet behind my main army. All together, it was an impressive defensive line, streetching pretty far.
Enemy union troops were preparing out of range of my muskets and BARELY in range of my cannon. However, my cannon were not firing YET. Eventually, the union began a methodical march, a huge drown of seeminlgly endless troops across flat open ground (Around a mile) towards me. So far, it was a pretty accurate recreation of Pickets charge during gettysburg, except sides where swwitched. About 1/2 a mile away, still marching, I ordered my cannon to open fire. However, and this is the cool part, I did it in volleys. I selected the first battery and clicked the target(Center of the advancing union line) and then 3 seconds later the next battery, 3 seconds later the next battery, etc. They continued in volley form, one battery after another down the line just like in real life, hammering away at the union. Large explosions punched holes in the union, but they did not falter. Soon, the advancing union broke into a charge! My skirmishers now opened fire, slowly stepping back behind my lines. Everntually, they were so close my artilley served no purpose (firing at a close range can be very disasterous to your own men). The union had pretty much halted about 100 feet away from my line, and we were returning volleys of fire. In my game, cannon can only be moved VERY slowly (you cannot march, only "march very quickly" with artillery, and its only one speed point.... VERY slow!)
The small yet determined number of union survivors from the deadly and long march now charged my line and artillery. My artillery was decmiated and now my soldiers were fighting hand to hand for quite some time with the union as they tried to break through my defensive line. I was outnumbered and I knew I couldn't hold much longer. My cavalry made one attempt to save my line, a desperate bayonet charge down at the center of the union, and it first looked like it was pushing them back, but they soon regrouped and I was driven back. The confederates did not hold the line, even though they inflicted much higher casaulties on the attackers(We were outnumbered)
All in all, it was a great battle and I will post pictures later.
War is not a crime, it is an art.
hey, if you have a finished product, please share it w/ us.... I am really eager to try out dif mods on STW engine. Thanks
SlackER ~ Extreme
In the ACW mod, what level of command do you act at... This is kind of confusing, but would you be Lee, Longstreet or Beuregard (sp?)
Life doesn't seem through bad with Led Zepplin floating through the ears
The level of command is sort of hard to determine, because it really depends on unit size(In options, whether you pick 60, 80, 100, 120, etc.). However, it's generally corp sized combat. (Longstreet)
As soon as it's done, of course i'll distribute it to the org for d/l
Except I sort of screwed somthign up, but i can't figuire out which file, so it looks like the project may be on hold for a week or two. (Until I get less lazy and I backup EVERY file i've modded, then reinstall and overwrite each file with the modded ones until I figuire out what I did wrong! Not a fun proccess)
War is not a crime, it is an art.
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