drop in morale when moving provinces

[solypsist]

okay this may be old news but I've noticed in the VI that if you move an army banner from one province to another, it may suffer a valor drop. I haven't looked into it too closely, but I wonder:

1. is this because of the presence of Christian shrines, churches? i thought these gave bonuses only to troops trained in that province.
2. does proximity to the king do this? the further you move away, the weaker your troops become (not talking about loyalty)

[Urban Legend]

Mayhaps a change in the lead general? Say you have 2 generals with both 4 command. One of them has a vice that is -1 command. And this one took over thus causing a drop of 1 valor.

[Knight Keimo]

Another strange thing that did appear after VI is that troops now usually lost one valour when assaulting a castle. And generals command stats drop also by one or two when assaulting. It´s not becouse of any V&V, like "Bad Assaulter" (??) or anything else, i did check my general.

[hrvojej]

A valour drop? Never noticed this, to be honest, (but then again, that doesn't mean anything, as I'm constantly baffled by new stuff that I find). Does it mayhaps have something to do with skilled attacker/skilled defender virtue? Does this happen when you shift them between regular provinces you control? I did notice some weird things about morale in the f1 screen that I suspected they could be related to the presence/absence of religious buildings and incorrect V&V descriptions, but nothing as dramatic as valour drops.

[Red Harvest]

Soly,

Does it happen because the general has a +2 specialist defender virtue? If you move a general like that to invade another province you would see a -1 valour drop among the troops as he drops two stars. (When setting stationary he has the +2 by default since he is in a defensive mode.)

I might have noticed something different like you describe a few times, but I didn't investigate it. Next time I'll look closer.

[Oaty]

My only geuss on units losing valour on a castle assault is that they had more casualties than they took especially ones that were used as cannon fodder or to break the gate all those towers some of the castles have take a unit to half strength and they dont kill a guy

For example you have a unit of 60 men 20 with a valour of 1 another 20 with valour 2 and another 20 with valour 3 giving them an average valour of 2. remember each individual man has there own valour. now lets say those towers take out 15 of them valour 3 units leaving you with 5 and you lose 10 valour 2 leaving you with 10 and you lose 5 of your valour 1

That leaves you with 30 guys with an average valour of 1.5 I dont know if the comp rounds up or not but you can see how the valour of that unit got reduced

[Knight Keimo]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ July 11 2003,23:02)]My only geuss on units losing valour on a castle assault is that they had more casualties than they took especially ones that were used as cannon fodder or to break the gate all those towers some of the castles have take a unit to half strength and they dont kill a guy

For example you have a unit of 60 men 20 with a valour of 1 another 20 with valour 2 and another 20 with valour 3 giving them an average valour of 2. remember each individual man has there own valour. now lets say those towers take out 15 of them valour 3 units leaving you with 5 and you lose 10 valour 2 leaving you with 10 and you lose 5 of your valour 1

That leaves you with 30 guys with an average valour of 1.5 I dont know if the comp rounds up or not but you can see how the valour of that unit got reduced

Yup, I see your point, but that wasn´t what I meant.

I mean that when you drag and drop an army into castle at the campaing map, you see the troops valour drop right there
Before battle is even been fought
General dont have any "Bad- or Good Assaulter" vices, so it seems weird..

[jas]

I'm pretty sure Red Harvest could be on the money about this. I saw it nicely demonstrated during my last Viking campaign. I sent a raiding army with a three star general which took a Mercian province, but I couldn't move him out straight away due to enemy naval blockade. They counter-attacked with overwhelming odds, and my army won, giving my general the skilled defender virtue. There he was on the campaign map, now with four stars. I planned to fight my way up the coast to bypass the blockade, so I moved the army to attack the (relatively undefended) province to the north. There was the general with three stars again on the pre-battle map. I didn't specifically check troop valour but I presume it changed with the stars. So I guess the difference with VI is that you see the stars from defensive virtues. If the drop is happening in a non-combat situation, I have no suggestions really, unless there has been a rearrangement of generals somehow, or your general coincidentally acquired a vice that turn.