Missile units won\'t shoot at routing enemies

[hecose]

I mainly play single-player, so I'm not sure whether this is the case for multi-player. One thing I notice is that your missile units won't fire at enemy units which are routing. E.g. I have a bunch of monks rushing towards my musketeers. Just before they reach the musketeers, a huge volley goes off, killing a lot of monks, and causing the rest to rout. When the monks are running away, my musketeers just stand there and do not continue to fire. If I want them to fire at the routing monks, I have to explicitly command them to do so. Aarrgghhh... they are missing the golden opportunity to get a lot more kills! The monks are sooooo near!

I don't know why missile units in the game are designed this way. One reason I can think of is to save ammo for other enemy units (which have not been routed). Another reason is maybe the missile units are expecting some friendly cavalry units (or fast foot soldiers) to chase down the routing enemies. (I might be overrating the intelligence of my men here)

Any other ideas or comments?

[Ii Naomasa]

I believe your first conclusion is the correct one. The musketeers probably follow the same logic as archers...and I'd definitely wouldn't want my archers firing two or three more volleys at fleeing troops that are scattered...you'd barely hit anything. It would be nice for the musketeers to still fire at will up to a certain range at routing troops...before they scatter. About the only battle that I had musketeers run out of ammo in was a custom battle between two gun-heavy armies, so ammo isn't of that much concern...

[Didz]

This is part of the 'Fire at Will' algorhythm. Routing units are no longer threat therefore missile units will switch targets or cease fire to conserve ammunition.

You can override this by ordering them to fire at a routing unit but to be honest its a waste of time at best and can actually be dangerous. Routing troops tend to scatter which makes them hard to hit and they also run which causes the missile unit to start chasing after them and can get them into trouble if the enemy has other formed units about.

My advice is to leave well alone and use Yari Cavalry to wreak havoc amongst the routing monks.

[Catiline]

What would be nice, though maybe unhistorical would be to have some form of rally command for pursued troops. I know napoleonic armies had emergency rally squares, the idea I'd like to see put into practice would allow you on occasion to rally your troops into a formation that would hold it's own against pursuing cavalry and keep some of it's troops alive, whilst having no offensive role. Loosing perfectly good units to rout is a damn pain.

Also routing troops ought to dump their weapons. I really don't see that a bunch of Ashigaru pegging it at the first glint of a katana on the horizon would hang on to those big old pikes. THey'd dump them to run faster, certainly not to the Spartan 'come home with your shield or on it' adage for them.

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It's not a bug, it's a feature

[BanzaiZAP]

Actually, Rally is very important and very useful! I've had at least one battle where I had broken the enemy, but they rallied in my face and chased me back, but I rallied myself, etc., etc., so the final body count was well over a thousand on each side. You can single select then rally individual units, or you can select All and rally everyone. It works well if the men are Wavering, but it will also often halt a fleeing unit, so they reform. It's the second button on the top, the one with the fan.


On the previous note, sometimes you WANT to shower fleeing troops, though, so it's nice to have that as an option.

A couple of units atop the Cliffs of Shinano is fun, for example, since the Rout Route is right along the foot. Six units routed, but nobody made it to the map edge.

-- B)

[solypsist]

yep.
Didz knows what he's talking about re: shooting at routing units. Most of the time your men will just end up chasing the fleeing unit (which tends to get them dangerously close to fresh enemy troops).
If you want to finish off routing enemy units, that's what cav is for (almost exclusively, unfortunately).

[Didz]

Catiline;

At the risk of offending you I assume you are aware the the button with the symbol like a fan on it is the Rally Button. Its just that you seem to be suggesting there is no Rally Command option. When your troops start running you have to select the routing unit(s) and starting clicking like mad on the fan button. Like BanzaiZAP says sometimes it even works. In my last online battle one unit of my muskets routed four times and each time I rallied them and moved them back into action.

My only complaint is that this button is dangerously close to the Rout button and on one occassion when part of my army was wavering I pressed CTRL A, went to hit the fan, missed, hit the rout button and routed my whole army

[This message has been edited by Didz (edited 10-31-2000).]

[BanzaiZAP]

Didz:
Been there, done that. Taking a winning situation, then accidentally having everyone run away. Talk about feeling stupid!

A note on that Rally button - it's often greyed out, and I'm not sure what regulates when you can or can not Rally. It'll flick on and off, so if you need to Rally, you really have to keep your eye on it and move fast, which enhances the potential for accidental routing. It has certainly saved my hash a number of times, though. Hooray for Rally! Gee, we seem to have left the original topic.....

-- B)

[Dwimmerlaik]

Hehe..to avoid accidental rout repeat this mantra...to rally press R, to rally press R to rally press R...in fact my finger never leaves that key the moment my army slams into my opponents...mainly coz they hand me my head on woven platter!

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To be happy it is necessary not to be too intelligent

- Flaubert-

[UglyJun]

yes i sugest also to only use the keyboard shortcuts its to dangerous to use the icons
i had a few battles having slaughterd the enemie and just wanting to regroup to finesh him off and i select all and woops i hit the wrong button and my hard fought victory is gone specialy if u near the withraw zone :eek

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LinkJun of The Chain Clan

[This message has been edited by Jun Tokugawa (edited 10-31-2000).]

[clairobscur]

If I understood correctly what I read in some of these posts, the "rally" button can be used if you're men are only "wavering"??? I believed it could be used only to rally *routed* units. So...Did I failed to make use of a major tool???

[Catiline]

Sorry Didz i've obviously not made myself clear enough. In answer yes I know there's a rally button and it can be very useful, but it does something rather diferent to what i mean. When you rally as is the unit forms up again as a regular unit to fight again, albeit with reduced morale.

What I want is for routing troops to have the sense to form up into an emergency formation to avoid being mown down by cavalry. It's a kind of lower level rally. I think i'm right in suggesting the amount of times you can rally is related to the generals honour or something similar, and equate to rally points which you then use. The idea of what I suggest is that it's a lower level of rally, either automatic or commanded by you, that just stops htem just getting caught and slaughtered. i hope thta makes what i'm trying to say clearer

[The Black Ship]

A routed army is historically butchered. But Catiline I do agree that some of your troops should attempt to rally, or form up, or whatever it is you want to call it.

Not every soldier in a routed army lost all sense of honour.

Wow, a whole post without a single smiley

Doh!!!

[BanzaiZAP]

clairobscur:
Well, it SEEMS to work for me. I've rallied wavering troops, and they went to Uncertain. It could have been just lucky timing. If people like Target are still around, they could give an actual report on the effects. It would be nice if it worked on any troop, regardless of morale level - do the King Henry trick of rallying your troops even if you're winning just to get them to fight harder. Rally right before an assault to get a bit of an edge, like a round of war cries before charging. (Eh-eh-eh.... OOOOOOH!!!!)

-- B)