Unimpressed with Sun Tzu

[Talon43]

My opinion only, first, Strategy & Tactics are 2 seperate entities, both are similiar but are different in fulfillment. Basic Strategy & Tactics students are taught both concepts by all the master stategists & tacticians of history. This covers a wide range of time frames and one thing you learn, is that as times, weapons etc, change, both stategy & tactics must change but the basic principles remain, its just the implementation of those principles that need to be looked at and studied. Rshuck, good reading besides those already mentioned are Gudarians Tactics on Armored warfare, he is considered by many to be the father of armored warfare, Hannibal's battle of Cannae,
Rommel the Deserf Fox, and more. In reading you should see that the basic principles are usually similiar in concept as those who have gone before, the "implementation" is where the real difference lies. No good battle plan survives the lst shot, flexibility in war is vital to winning, and at times you must be willing and able to go against the basic teachings. How many battles have been won by those who went "against accepted rules of war" and thus creating their own or new strategies or tactics. But don't confuse strategy with tactics, both are needed together but both are different.

High honor to those who give honor Talon43

[BakaGaijin]

I've got one of Guderian's books, but I've never been able to finish it. One can only take so much "Got transferred to X, Captain Y is too old-fashioned." before going insane. The bits about the actual development of armour strategy are interesting, but there was just too much bloody fluff in there. I wish I could remember which book of his I had, so I could warn you all away from it specifically. =/

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Disappear into the Darkness!!

[Talon43]

The books do have fluff, but do have some good stuff, but like you, I found some to be tedious like those on Cesear and some others, but they have good stuff on strategy and tactics if you can get thru the other stuff, some interesting, some boring,
One way around, which I find more interesting, is to get and read up on various battles & wars in history. I think these actually give more insight to these areas especially with the master strategists and tacticians of history.

High honor to those who give honor Talon43

[CEWest]

>Obviously the Japanese cant think much of >his works or why did they go to war with >america during WWII?

Actually, Sun Tzu was right about that as well - always give your enemies a percieved 'way out'. If you corner a dog, it will fight, regardless of the odds.

Japan was being bled of oil and production due to embargo. They felt cornered. It isn't that they didn't follow sun tzu, it is that America and the allies didnt.

[andrewt]

Sun Tzu's book is very general and should be adapted to the times. For example, when he says use high ground, it doesn't mean use high ground literally. It just means use the ground to your advantage. If you fight the U.S. right now, you shouldn't use high ground but should remain hidden in low ground, or else it's, hi B-1, hi B-2, hi B-52. Because of guns, tanks, mortars and RPG's, yesterday's high ground is today's low ground. The objective now is not to be able to charge down faster or increase the range of your arrows, but to remain hidden where you can shoot at your opponent and your opponent can't shoot back. So, when he says use high ground, in a modern army, that means use low ground.

[Subutai]

"The objective now is not to be able to charge down faster or increase the range of your arrows"

Apart from the fact that long range inter-continental balistic missiles have completely changed military strategy in the last fifty years, and super-sonic jet fighters really are the order of the day. Take the high position, well how about three miles above your position aiming a bomb at you.

Anyway, it seems to me that the thing is with 'wisdom', is that it often consolidates things which you already intuitively felt or thought anyway, but hadn't properly considered. Maybe this is why someone might be unimpressed with Sun Tzu. But for me, it's usefulness is in clarifying the muddy waters of intuitive thought.

Incidentally, I'm amazed by how many battles I don't have to fight in Shogun. I spend a lot more time on the strategic map playing glorified chess, than an RTS battle game (I like it that way though).


Subutai - Thief and Archer


ps - first post, Hi.

[This message has been edited by Subutai (edited 12-04-2001).]

[MountainSoul]

Our perception of what we see, read experience and do is all limited by one thing...imagination... its up to you to see what u want to see.And a man without imagination is a useless pitiful thing.