dude, clashing vices. what the heck?

[MiniKiller]

first my guy gets man of principle (+100% to bribery cost) then just now he got more flexibility (-30% to bribery costs)

what the hell?

[KyodaiSteeleye]

yes, you can get bizarre contradictory vices.

You can also get silly one's like your heirs growing an extra toe when they 40, but such is MTW life...

[Sociopsychoactive]

I quite often get people with strong principals AND wak principals.

The first one, stong, is gained when your general (or their general) resists an attempt to bribe him. Things like man of honour occur when they kill the emmisary in outrage at the offer. All of these vices CAN occur naturally with no bribary going on aswell.

The other set, weak principals, moral flexibility and No Principals (I love the description for that one. This man is completely motivated by money, as his grandmothers new owner will attest) are got when accepting bribes, the bigger ones for accepting bribes off not much money.

Therefore it;s easy to get both.

I also get quite a few stewards who are also bad/poor stewards. This happens when you build up your farms early (giving steward virtues) and then leave the governer and the province for ages, builduing none-frms. They will then develop bad/poor steward, despite the province having 80% (or 40% in viking) farmland.

[kawligia]

I hate the way a failed inquisition will give you both "pious" and "athiest".

That is just plain stupid. Whose idea was that anyway?

[Sociopsychoactive]

I thinkt thats actually quite realistic. Just because you do the motions, preach the preach and talk the talk doesn;t mean you TRULY belive. Pious men are often just doing it to look good, when they are really atheists.

[kawligia]

then they should have a separate vice for that.

and surely not everyone is just for show.

[Ironside]

A weak/skilled attacker combo is also quite weird.

[Basileus]

Should be so that when you get man of principle the weak principle should go away, a man can change cant he hehe, anyway i can live it as it is now just hope v&v will be better with Rome

[Rowan11088]

Well some of the sort of contradictory ones are just odd...I had a general in my Viking Campaign who each turn went further towards "Unhinged Loon" but also towards the opposite one, which adds 3 morale and 30 happiness, so by the end he had 0 bonus to morale and happiness....part of the time I guess he was insane, part of the time the most charismatic person ever :)

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (Basileus @ Feb. 22 2004,14:30)]anyway i can live it as it is now just hope v&v will be better with Rome

Agreed. It should be some sort of scale, in stead of a solid 'attribute' that can only get better / worse.

[The_678]

My favourite contradictory vices are the ones gotten by continually inquisiting someone. I love seeing born again atheists.

[The Tuffen]

In my game last night i tried bribing a french general with the -10% bribary cost only to have the, "the general is to loyal" message come up. The next turn I then looked at the general again and he had the Man of Principle

[katank]

In a sicilian game that I played, I wiped out the italians early by rushing but didn't have enough cash to bribe tankerville on sardinia due to excessive merc use.

later, when I had enough cash, I found that he had a man of honour +100% or something along with his default no principles.

the grandmother's new owner and needing a king's ransom is just funny.

stupid byz emissary who drove the price up

I managed to get him anyways but not without a steep price.

[dancho]

I get this quite often:

Very Loyal
Secret Adultery

Oh really?

[Servius]

does anyone know where the file is that has all these vices? The reason I ask is that several of their descriptions don't line up with their actual effect, like Proud. Proud, or Pride or something, says that it gives +1 Valor and -2 Command, but it really only decreases Command by 1.

Also, are you able to just delete out certain vices or virtues to keep them from coming up in the game. In this case I'm primarily thinking about the abscent governor one. If so, how do you remove them?

[kawligia]

Is there a way to alter which ones you get?

I want inquisitions to give EITHER athiest OR devout...not both.

[o_loompah_the_delayer]

Isnt the green generals thing in VI supposed to take care of this by dumping vices and virtues every so often?

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (Servius1234 @ Mar. 01 2004,10:05)]does anyone know where the file is that has all these vices? The reason I ask is that several of their descriptions don't line up with their actual effect, like Proud. Proud, or Pride or something, says that it gives +1 Valor and -2 Command, but it really only decreases Command by 1.

Also, are you able to just delete out certain vices or virtues to keep them from coming up in the game. In this case I'm primarily thinking about the abscent governor one. If so, how do you remove them?

Actually Pride and Secret Pride has always been bugged in MTW. It's used to be that Secret Pride and Pride both gave 2 valour, -2 accuman, -2 command. But now in v2.1 (it probably the same way in 2.0=VI) are they bugged in the way that Secret Pride work that Pride is supposed to work, while Pride works like Secret Pride is supposed to work, BUT if it goes Secret Pride --> Pride then Pride works correctly.

[Nowake]

Quote[/b] (MiniKiller @ Feb. 20 2004,21:19)]first my guy gets man of principle (+100% to bribery cost) then just now he got more flexibility (-30% to bribery costs)

what the hell?

This is one of the most annoying things in V&V. At least one of them should disspear.

[Sociopsychoactive]

[QUOTE=[b]Quote[/b] (Ironside @ Mar. 02 2004,08:36)]

http://www.totalwar.org/forum/non-cgi/emoticons/gc-confused.gif[/img]

Ok,

So, if you get secret pride and it develops into pride it works properly?

But if you get pride straight off the mark, it acts like secret pride?

And if you get secret pride on it;s own, it works like pride?

I'm a confuzzled bunny

I always thought it was just that the descriptions were wrong...

[Servius]

so does anyone know where the file is that has all these descriptions and such?

[Ludens]

Quote[/b] (o_loompah @ Mar. 01 2004,20:59)]Isnt the green generals thing in VI supposed to take care of this by dumping vices and virtues every so often?

IIRC green generals does not remove v&v, but just tones them down. The successor of a dead general will have lower stats and the v&v's will be one level lower (e.g. expert attacker will become skilled attacker).

[Ironside]

Citera[/b] (Sociopsychoactive @ Mar. 02 2004,08:05)]So, if you get secret pride and it develops into pride it works properly?

Close, pride works properly but not secret pride. Else you got it correct.

Citera[/b] ]so does anyone know where the file is that has all these descriptions and such?

MTW/LOC/ENG/Events
MTW/LOC/ENG/CHANGES

But remember that messing with those files only changes the desciptions, I think.
Funny reading though, it seems that emissaries, biships, etc. was planned to have V&V during some point and the number of V&V that exists, but aren't in the game.

[.:vVv:.Monkey]

Quote[/b] (KyodaiSteeleye @ Feb. 20 2004,14:43)]You can also get silly one's like your heirs growing an extra toe when they 40, but such is MTW life...

maybe it was a giant wart with a nail on it

[MiniKiller]

Quote[/b] (.:vVv:.Monkey @ Mar. 02 2004,14:21)]

Quote[/b] (KyodaiSteeleye @ Feb. 20 2004,14:43)]You can also get silly one's like your heirs growing an extra toe when they 40, but such is MTW life...

maybe it was a giant wart with a nail on it

[Doug-Thompson]

Seriously, these "offsetting" virtues and vices are something players can't ignore.

A governor can have a terrible vice and still be a good governor. Wait a turn or two before stripping away his title.

[MiniKiller]

grrr my 5 star gen who just took 2 provinces in a row was just deemed lazy...lazy? wtf then he broke a siege and nopw he is very lazy god damn