Christian Daimyo killing Priests???

**General Malaise** · 08-17-2003, 07:15

Okay, so I'm playing the Oda Campaign starting 1580 and I'm Christian. Shimazu manages to sweep across the west and starts attacking my borders so, since he's Christian as well, I figure I can safely send over a priest to offer a ceasefire so I'm not getting hit from two sides. Next turn, I get my priest's head back I thought Christian daimyos weren't suppposed to kill Christian Priests

**Mori Zennousha** · 08-17-2003, 08:10

Konnichiwa General Malaise...

out of curiosity, who is your Daimyo? the reason i ask is that, since you're playing the 1580 campaign, it may be that the game is reflecting historical events around that time... i believe it was in 1597 that Toyotomi Hideyoshi turned his attention towards the Shimazu... if you're around that time, and Hideyoshi is your Daimyo, the fact that you're both Christian may have little bearing on your situation; the animosity between the two clans may out-weigh any religious affiliation (which, as i understand it, would be anything but unprecedented)...

hope this helps,
Z
*bows*

**General Malaise** · 08-17-2003, 08:40

Mori,

The year is 1603 and Oda Nobukane is my daimyo. Toyotomi Hideyoshi is 53 (being only two years younger) and next in line, but he's not leading my clan, and it's about five years past 1597. It says in the game manual that Christian daimyo WON'T kill Christian emissaries, so regardless he should have just rejected the offer...

- The General

**Mori Zennousha** · 08-17-2003, 08:58

interesting... and you're right; the actual quote i just read says that a Christian Daimyo "will never" send a Jesuit priest's head back in a bag... although, from personal experience, that is not true... i did one 1530 campaign a while back, and played as Shimazu... when the Portugese came, i switched to Christianity (the only time i've gone that route)... Oda also switched, and sure enough, our paths crossed eventually... i did the same thing (though my motives were more insidious), and got the same result from Oda: my priest's head sent home in a bag... i didn't put much thought into it at the time, as i was winning in a pretty big way by then (this was the easiest campaign i've finished, not counting the MI ones), but now that you mention it, it is interesting... i don't think it's a bug or anything, but i could be wrong about that... i can tell you it has happened before, and maybe provide some historical relevance, but beyond that i have no idea... i can say this: STW is one game in which nothing can be taken for granted; apparently this applies to priests as well as everything else...

good luck, m8... hope you kick Shimazu all over the map...
Z
*bows*

**General Malaise** · 08-17-2003, 09:09

I think if a daimyo does kill a priest he should lose his Christian status or AT LEAST lose some loyalty among his subjects in Christian provinces for committing such a heinous sacrilige. It wouldn't bother me so much normally, but virtually everyone on the map is allied against me. I'm fighting four opponents on two borders. Only Hojo is with me and he's getting beaten down on the other side of the map by Uesugi. None of the other clans were even at war with each other for a great deal of the game. Shimazu just allied with Mori and only in the last few turns or so did Uesugi attack Takeda. I've had to defend the same provinces (especially Mino and Harima) about a half a dozen times or more, being outnumbered by 2 to 1 most times, because Takeda and Tokugawa or Shimazu and Mori launched a coordinated invasion I can't even make alliances with anyone else other than Hojo because they turn me down for being hostile to one of their current allies and they all kill my emissaries, regardless of religion, when I try to plea for peace. I'm telling you it's a conspiracy against Oda

**Mori Zennousha** · 08-17-2003, 09:37

well, you're right... it is a conspiracy against Oda... but not so much because it's Oda as much as because it's you... the comp can really be nasty in SP campaigns, certainly as far as the strat map goes...

again out of curiosity, have you looked at my thread on the Takeda campaign i recently finished?... i mention in there that i was allied with everyone at one point or another, and that they all broke their alliances, all except the Uesugi... to be sure, Hojo was still my ally when his Geisha's started slicing and dicing the upper echelon of my military; the bastard didn't have the cojones to fight me full strength for which he paid eventually...

alliances are a funny thing in this game, as they apparently were during Sengoku Jidai... the ultimate goal is to take control of all Japan, and become Shogun... yet, you can't do that and stay allied to other clans forever... eventually, all alliances must be broken or disolved by a clan's passing in order to win it all... so the very nature of diplomacy in STW is dynamic to say the least... FWIW, i have found the Shimazu and the Uesugi to be the most likely to keep an alliance in the campaigns i've played... the Mori seem to be the worst, often attacking the season after an alliance has been accepted the others seem to lump together as far as reliability goes, although i have a newly developed hatred for the Hojo after that last campaign... i'm guessing that others have had different experiences (maybe the Hojo will be the ones that stick with you 'til they're gone... or maybe they'll attack you... who knows?)... in any event, remember that, while smart strat map play is essential, STW is won on the Battlefield; always be ready for battle, regardless of who you're allied, or not allied, with...

Sayonara,
Z

**General Malaise** · 08-17-2003, 10:01

Hey again Mori, (are you on right now? should play a game of Shogun, lol)

This is actually the first time I've had EVERYONE (but 1 clan) against me like this, and a situation in which it is nigh impossible to make peace. Personally, I don't like being at war. In most campaigns my domain is at peace for as long as I can hold it, and I'm rarely fighting more than 1 (2 at most) daimyo at a time, not couting ronin. When I do attack, it's generally in a blitzkrieg style, rushing huge numbers of troops suddenly into a small area, then pushing them across my enemies' borders as fast as I can without creating loyalty problems, destroying his infrastructure, then falling back to defensible provinces.

I have read your post about your Takeda campaign and I just had a similiar thing happen to me in my 1550 Shimazu campaign. I had conquered all of western Japan and had pushed up to the center where Uesegi, with much more land and larger armies, had taken control of . We had some savage battles over our borders but eventually we both grew tired of it and made peace. Suddenly, clans started reappearing all behind his borders, and he made an alliance with me (whilst we tried to eliminate each other through espionage). Eventually, my ninja and geisha prevailed over his (was mighty close though) and when the Uesugi clan fell almost ALL of his samurai joined me, after only being allies a few years, and I immediately gained central and eastern Japan with huge armies to crush the few remaining feeble clans that had tried to rise again.

As for the Oda campaing I'm playing now, winning on the battlefield is the only reason I'm alive. Though I'm always severely outnumbered my enemies repeated attacks have actually trained my armies, as I take little losses each time whilst they take massive. My large number of high honor, well equipped gunners blow any advancing army to pieces before they even reach my wall of ashigaru spearpoints. Somehow, I've managed to get up a Geisha house way before my enemies so assasination is currently my only hope for offence unfortunately at the moment.

- The General

UPDATE: Five years later, I managed to assassinate into extinction all the remaining clans but two (whose daimyos fell in battle) using only 3 unopposed geisha. Not the most noble or glorious way to conquer a nation, but hey, it was easy...

**LCJr** · 08-24-2003, 23:51

I think the manual should read "a christian daimyo will always kill your priest". Not quite that bad but regardless of which daimyo I'm playing I've had other Christian's kill them.

Usually lose several to ninja too. Seems to be a guarentee'd kill for the ninja. Oh well at least the event movies are amusing.