Any Spanish/Portugeuse modders available?, Advice

[Aurelian]

Moderators: This is a response to one of Wellington's posts in the Dungeon. I'd be grateful if you would move it there. Thanks.


Hello Wellington,

I may be able to provide you with a decent starting place for your Reconquista mod map. A French boardgame company named Azure Wish put out a game called Espana a few years ago. It uses the same game system as the more popular Britannia (if you're familiar with that title). The game covers the ebb and flow of Spanish history from the Punic Wars up until the 1200's (if memory serves). The game map is divided into an appropriate number of provinces, and is incidentally drawn onto a satellite image of Spain. If you like, I could scan one of the paper reference maps that comes with the game and send it to you.

I'd also be willing to confer with you on any other aspects of the mod. I have all the relevant Osprey titles on Spain, as well as access to several good university libraries. I've been lurking on the boards for quite a while and have begun playing around with modding myself.

Thanks for all the hard work

[Wellington]

Hi A,

Many thanks for your offer to scan one of the maps and send it me. I would be most appreciative if you would be willing to do such a thing. I did look on the net for suitable maps (including game sites) but could'nt find sufficient detail.

If so, please send it me in GIF or JPG format (if possible) to alan.tipping@wxs.nl The satellite map I've chosen to use is ok, and the basic components of the mod are already in place. I have shield/flag images for the various new factions required and as the current MTW units cover the troop types implicit in the factions involved during the Reconquista, no new units are necessary. It's the campaign map issues that really require addressing.

Any assistance you can offer in provinces naming, and any other area, would be more than welcome.

The idea is to produce a mod that recreates the Reconquista in a manner that addresses the various time periods implicit in this era of Iberian history. Perhaps having 2 or more startpos files (as per MTW) that provide different starting dispositions depending on the time.

For example, an 'early' period startpos file would include the Leon, Castille and Aragon factions as independent playable Christian Kingdoms. A 'middle' startpos file would offer Leon and Castille as just 1 faction and see the emergence of Portugal as a new independent faction (obviously, such startpos files would also include the independent muslim kindoms in both Iberia and North Africa).

Hence the provinces, and names of, for such a new campaign map would have to incorporate boundaries that are reasonably realistic in terms of the vast changes throughout Iberia during this time.

BTW - this mod will be initially for MTW 1.1 - not VI.

regards,
Welly

[Aurelian]

Hi Wellington,

As you requested, I scanned the map and sent it on to you in JPEG format. The numbers in bold on the map are the income values for the provinces in the game. That might be useful. The circled numbers are modified stacking values. Probably not useful. As I'm sure you'll quickly notice, the names for the provinces are in neither Spanish or English, but rather French. The game was was made in France, so I guess that's understandable. The lingual conversion shouldn't be too difficult; and I can help out if you want it in English or Spanish.

The one thing I immediately noticed about the map is that there is only one North African province. I don't know what your satellite image contains, but having several North African areas would be useful as the Almoravides and Almohades both had extensive African empires that they used as a starting point for their conquests in Andalusia.

Luckily, the map does have around 40 areas - which I think is about the number of provinces you were looking for.

I agree with you that more than one Startpos file would be a good idea. Perhaps there could be two or three mini-campaigns with a relatively short number of years and appropriate homeland glory goals? That would give us something unique. The Reconquista period is unique in that you have two waves of fundamentalist Muslims boiling out of North Africa and taking over large parts of the peninsula.

As for units, I think that the Christian powers are very well represented in the game; but a few additions to the Muslims might be nice.

First, the Muslims need an equivalent to the jinetes. While the Christians probably always had small numbers of light horse, the jinetes as such developed in the 1200's as a counter to similar Islamic light horse. They would look like the burncav bif with javelins and a small heart shape shield similar to the one carried by the dervish bif. The same bif with a bamboo lance would also be particularly useful as Arab lancers. Strangely, Arab lancers never made it into the game even though they would have been common in both Almohade and Egyptian armies. The ghulams which fulfill that role were history actually heavy quick-shooting horse archers that were good in melee - more like Sipahi of the Porte (I'll stop digressing now). A quick fix would be to simply make jinetes available to Muslims early and Spanish later on.

The Murabit infantry are fine as a troop type, but really represent generic Berber javelinmen. The actual Murabits had black garbed spearmen with large shields, long spears, and a distinctive veil across the lower part of their face. Tactically, they were characterized by fighting defensively with javelin throwers and archers behind them - and being willing to die in place. After the enemy broke themselves on the spearmen, the light horse pursued and finished them off. I suppose the Muwahid spear in the game are the closest thing currently available, although they are a bit too oriented towards charging.

The Granadans relied heavily on crossbowmen and mounted crossbowmen (particularly in the later Reconquista period). They could certainly use Christian graphics, perhaps with a valor bonus to push them towards producing those units.

... Oh, and heavy camels. The North Africans made use of heavy camels like the Bedouin camelry in the game - although perhaps a bit fiercer.

Anyway, talk to you later...

[Portuguese Rebel]

So welli, when can i get the whole peninsula for myself?

[Wellington]

Quote[/b] (Portuguese Rebel @ Sep. 18 2003,16:17)]So welli, when can i get the whole peninsula for myself?

Who do you think you are Napoleon?

[Portuguese Rebel]

Napoleon? No way he tried 3 times and failed. Even having the spanish on their side. He later said he should never have got involved in the peninsula. Apparently his generals told him that the crazy portuguese fought house to house and each farm they went through was a new battle. In the end, the portuguese and the english drived Napoleon of the peninsula and the spanish had to sign a treaty, while portuguese troops marched victorious through Madrid.

And i know i can do better than this...

[Gregoshi]

Er, I guess I don't need to copy this anymore...