Teppo samurai

[Irving]

Samurai would either carry a sword, bow or teppo into battle. So, I'd like to see a unit (not unsimilar to ND) but armed with a teppo and a sword. Since they are samurai they would have a higher honour than the current gun powder units. well, what do you all think?

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Hmm - sounds a bit too hard to implement without it being an uber-unit. Basically what your asking for is a samurai gunman - better than a normal musketman (who is deadly due to the weapon used) that also has roughly the H2H ability of samurai archers. Gameplay wise - it would seriously make thinks imbalanced - as a group of these would hold supreme on a hill. Cav could not touch them, nor could shock troops. Nagi and YS would also fall at long range, and other ranged units would not be as equally effective as these guys. Probably the only way to stop them would be the use of Kensai or BN. I think the idea is great - but for gameplay reasons can't be used within the MI/WE realm. Maybe its more feasible within MTW though.
Just my 2 koku.
Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Irving]

yes, that would be my concern also, but if we are talking real life, that's what it would have been.

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

In history, only ashigaru handled the gun, because it was surely easier to use than the bow...which required skill and many years of training...practically only available to a samurai.

Therefore a 'teppo samurai' is very historically inaccurate. Anyway the problems that BSM just mentioned are enough to stop its implimentation.

In M:TW eh? The musketeers in Europe we usually more trained than their Japanese fellowmen. Also there are the units called Dragoons who where regarded as elite troops, especially in French + English armies. They essentially where cavalry - with guns! Quite strong as both missile and melee troop.

Tera

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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka.
Evil is within us...
Visit my resource site here!

[Krasturak]

Gah! Dragoons are cool ... but LANCERS are the boss.

Pennants flying, they charge out from the uncovered flank to demolsih the enemy line ... or die in a volley of musket fire.

Gah! When do we get Napoleonic Totalwar?!?!?

Lancers are very cool. I hope they are included in M:TW, even if they were kinda primitive at first. Dragoons are a unit of the 16th/17th century mainly, I hope they are there in M:TW!

Napeonic: Total War? I won't count on it for now. They included Asia in Total War 1. Europe in Total War 2. So I bet America will be in Total War 3. Prepare for the American Civil War...probably.

Tera


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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka.
Evil is within us...
Visit my resource site here!

[Irving]

Terazawa,

I am sure that samurai carried firearms onto the battlefield as there is a gun called a 'samurai's gun.' They were popular in castle defences (don't tell me there were ashigaru in to castle) etc

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

Quote Originally posted by Irving:
Terazawa,

I am sure that samurai carried firearms onto the battlefield as there is a gun called a 'samurai's gun.' They were popular in castle defences (don't tell me there were ashigaru in to castle) etc

[/QUOTE]

Didn't know what. Somebody may elaborate?


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Honour to Clan Kenchikuka.
Evil is within us...
Visit my resource site here!

[LordTed]

Werent it dishonourable for a samuri to use a teppo in battle? This may be why they dont use them.

[Kraellin]

for those of us who dont know, what's a 'teppo'?

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[KukriKhan]

Teppo (top image) smaller version of English wick-ignited arquebus-kinda thing. Samurai launched 11.5 mm balls from these things, resting the stock on their cheeks.

[Vanya]

No wonder the Japs perfected that scream...

[BSM_Skkzarg]

While not a "historical" document by any stretch of the imagination - if anyone has ever read the Saga of Vedun, otherwise titled "Gonji", you will note a continual theme of contempt for those who use firearms. And this contempt was coming from a Ronin Samurai toward Mongol Mercenaries! It should be noted as well that while Gonji continually said that Firearms hold no honor, he did use them on the rare occasion when necessary, but still prefered the blade and bow for action.

Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Yagyu Jubei]

BSM....
I would love it if we could get rid of guns all together!
In the Colorado we have the make my day law where you can shoot somebody that has broken into your home....I keep a nice sharp katana
Anybody can point and shoot...How many of us can cut a man in two?

[Irving]

IMO, if i broke into someones house, it would be a lot scarier to see someone wearing do and hachimaki screaming and charging at you with a katana or a tachi raised.

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[solypsist]

wow. taking the time to put on do and the rest of the gear, properly while someone is breaking and entering shows real discipline.

[Irving]

you're damn right. if you're really good. you can start putting on cool stuff like somen, and an o-yoroi.

apparently, sometimes, samurai would keep a set of armour all together so he could wriggle into it.. (it would be hanging) anyways. that's what you do.

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Sorry, we live in a modern world, and in this modern world your foe, the idiot scum attempting to enter your home and steal your possessions, rape your daughter or wife, and take your life is not likely to be unarmed. And, having left a career where I dealt with the scum of the earth day in and day out, let me tell you, they have no honor, and thus to go against them you must lock away your pride in your skills, and resort to the most effective way of accomplishing your goals. In this case, that refers to my Makarov 9mm loaded with cutpoints. Yes, there are more "honorable" ways. But in a life and death situation such as these - there is no honor - only survival.

I could honestly never be a samurai - for I would rather have a slight tarnish on my honor with the chance to repair it, than be an honorable dead man at the hands of the filth of the earth. In the end, there is no honor in that death.

My, what a morbid post. LOL
Qapla!
Skkzarg

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Irving]

hmm. a Makarov. cutpoints? what is that, some sort of flechette round? or just a kind of 9mm round. I'm not really into amunition. Well, not all of us have Makarovs or any firearm for that matter. and if the guy is unarmed and sees you with a sword he'll probably run. no? anyways if he doesn't, cut him in two

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Irving]

sorry. sorry, misread your post. you said "not likely to be unarmed" damn double negatives..

well, most small time burglars would have what, a baseball bat? hell, I'll take a tachi over that anyday of the week.

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Katasaki Hirojima]

Heh, arn't you guys forgeting about another weapon of the Samurai? THe BOW! I keep a recurved bow in my room, unstrung of course but I can string a bow in 30 seconds. I also keep my various wooden swords and spears that I make.

Heh, talking about homes being broke into...

My dad keeps a .22 automatic rifle under his bed as well. Our apartment is on the second story. It has an outdoor stairway that leads up to are porch. THe door has two dead bolt locks and a normal lock and is made out of solid oak. To get ot us you have to pass through a NARROW curveing hallway at the end of which is dads room and mine to the side. Our home is built, like the entire apartment complex, with security in mind.



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"I maintain none the less that Yin-Yang Dualism can be overcome. With sufficent enlightment, we can give substance to any distinction: Mind without body, north without south, pleasure without pain. Renember, enlightment is a function of will power, not of physical strength."- Shang-ji Yang, essays on mind and matter.

[Major Robert Dump]

I think we all need to start a seperate thread for what weapon to use when someone invades your home.....

I have a few ideas...

[Irving]

speaking of break-ins.
Burglars i think are mostly cowards. anyways, they will most likely only rob a house when noone is home. anyhow, burglars only robbed my parents house once. when they saw that there was nothing to steal they never came back! seriously. and about 5 houses down this guy gets robbed all the time.

weapons in my room : kung fu long staff (yes not kidding), lame ass bow i made which wouldn;t stop crap.. it would smart though

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[KukriKhan]

Maj Bob sez: "..I think we all need to start a seperate thread for what weapon to use when someone invades your home....."

Trip-wired claymore mine springs to mind. Just gotta remember: "Concave out, concave OUT!"

[Irving]

yeah, that might help

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Irving]

back to the actual topic.

if you remember, in the demo, 'archers' were called 'light samurai' which i think is more historically accurate.. because to say a samurai is awful with a sword just doesn't work

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[BSM_Skkzarg]

Burglars only rob houses when no one is home? Ever heard the term "home invasion"? They are quite common in many places in the US. Also - I use cutpoints made by Hornady in my 9mm, while I use Rem's for my backup, a .38 snub. Cutpoints are similiar to a hollowpoint PMJ round. The difference is that the tip of the round is not as cupped, and the exterior sidewalls of the cup are "cut", or grooved, to allow for greater round expansion upon impact, while giving less "loss" of ballistic power prior to target.

Back to the topic - I do think that any samurai worth the name would have some skill in the blade. In fact, most of the great "legends" in samurai history (other than generals) were revered for their skill with MANY weapons.
Qapla!

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BSM_Skkzarg
"A mind is a terrible thing to taste."

[Irving]

damn. remind me to never break into your house

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Chaos is born from order.
Cowardice is born from bravery.
Weakness is born from strength.
-Sun Tzu

[Kraellin]

irving,

going back to your original post, you can make your own in we/mi, 1.02; just alter the appropriate stats in the troopstats.txt and projectiles.txt files.

K.


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The only absolute is that there are no absolutes.

[BSM_Skkzarg]

still no joy on changing the anim graphic tho is there?
Skkz