Shogun Port Warfare

[Nikku]

I was just wondering everyone's opinion on one of Shogun's little quirks. What do you think about the ability to send a strategic unit (emmisary, assasin, ect) to an enemy port and then send an army there? I wouldn't feel so bad about it if the AI did it too, but it's like fighting NERF bats with aluminum ones.

Nikku

[Togakure]

On rare occasions when playing on Expert level, the AI will attack via port. It's usually the Shimazu and/or Mori, attacking Owari in midgame as their fronts approach central Japan. I've noticed they tend to do this when they do not yet occupy a central province with a port. Kawachi is also often a target if a port has been built there.

In one very strange game the Mori kept attacking Owari via a port jump round after round. They would attack with one unit, and lose every time. I used the province as a taisho (general) training ground and ended up with 4 6-star generals in the same game.

The port jump is a great way to raze koku (pun intended), severely hamper enemy troop dissemination and reduce their income (by destroying ports), and prevent significant infrastructure development. It diverts attention away from their front line and generally stymies their focused march to the capital and beyond.

Contrary to the opinions of many who post here, I feel the port jump is a legimitate tactic. In some games it is the only way to keep the Shimazu or Mori in the west and the Uesugi or Hojo in the east from building up those massive stacks of armies after they eliminate the local opposition. As Japan is a much smaller area than the area covered in MTW, not having to manage ships is not so unrealistic to me. I also tend only to attack those that attack me, just to make the game more interesting. Once they do, I wage open war with them, and use port attacks as I deem necessary.

One of my favorite ways to attack via a port is with an army made up entirely of battlefield ninja. The enemy usually responds with a small army because the attacking army is small. You have to fight these battles on the field usually, but enemy troops almost always run when they see an army of BFN headed their way. Well, actually they only see the taisho unit--all other units are invisible until they attack. It doesn't take long for your BFN general to attain 4-star rank, and by then his ninja troops have also gained honor. Before you know it you have a very powerful, albeit small army of elite BFN, capable of defeating armies 4-5 times its size. These armies make excellent assault teams againt castles that are not heavily garrisoned, and are also useful in bridge assaults as the enemy cannot see them sneak across the bridge.

[Gregoshi]

I agree Nikku. STW Iron Man rules puts the port attack on the no-no list.

[Togakure]

Iron man rules, no no list. Blah blah blah.

To agree with using port attacks or to disagree with using them is fine--an opinion expressed.

To use terms like these suggest an elitist attitude and are implicatively condescending, if not overtly so. I have grown used to them here though, as many at the org express themselves in this fashion.

However, just in case it interests anyone, this tendency to be unconsciously disrespectful (unconsciously, I suspect, in most cases) will drive some undergound into a less participative mode, or for the especially sensitive, away from the org to other forums. But the org doesn't have to worry about this with it's well-established population. Like begets like. However, just in case anyone here does care about such things, I bring it up, and make it public.

I imagine now I'll get more of the toughen up and don't take things so seriously diatribe. Yeah well: blah blah blah.

[Sasaki Kojiro]

I've always seen the port invasion as something to do if you want to handicap yourself...it is one of many things to do to make the game a little more difficult, the AI does do it, though not very often, just because it makes the game easier is no reason to ban it, it's part of the strategy just like some of the other ways of taking advantage of the AI.

[Hamburglar]

I always thought it was a bug.

Just because my emmissary is chilling in the port my army can now land there?

Thats why I don't do it.

[katar]

Quote[/b] ]To use terms like these suggest an elitist attitude and are implicatively condescending, if not overtly so. I have grown used to them here though, as many at the org express themselves in this fashion.

TRUTH

if you don`t feel happy using the tactic, don`t.
if you consider if legitimate to use, then do so.

with regards to the game, i do what i choose to do, nothing else is required for me to enjoy it.

[Nikku]

Jeez. And I was just wondering what other people thought . . . I didn't me to bite anyone's goat I do feel a little better knowing that AI at least has it as an option. I almost wish it would do it more often. It would make things more interesting.

Nikku

[Togakure]

Nikku san: I don't think you bit anyone's goat (Funny term ). IMO, your question and comments were presented in fine form.

The weakness is mine. Sometimes I find it difficult to rise above what for some is simple unconscious insensitivity, but for many others here a deliberate habit of putting down other people's opinions. It is a tendency that I for one would like to see changed. I don't think my method in this thread is necessarily the best way to inspire such change, but I have my grumpy days too, just like everyone else.

Thanks, for your contributions to the community.

[Gregoshi]

Worry not Nikku, it was my side comment about Iron Man rules that set things off.

I have to admit I was rather taken aback by your Iron Man rule rant Togakure. I didn't expect such a thing from a throw away comment. I've been thinking about your elitist comments. The Iron Man rules were developed by those who found the TW games too easy, even at their hardest levels. Many of the rules target certain areas of the games where the player has an advantage over the AI. The Port Invasion is a STW example and Trade/ships is an example in MTW. I can't recall any situations where the Iron Man rules were used to maliciously put down anyone. I do know that when some one complains how easy the game is, some one will say Then try using Iron Man rules. It make the game harder. However, I don't think it is done in a mean-spirited way. Maybe that is just me and my rose coloured glasses though and you, among others, see it differently. The fact that you mentioned it and katar jumped in and seconded your view says that there is at least a perception of this situation. As one of my old bosses said, Perception is reality. I will try to look out for this elitist attitude over Iron Man rules in the future though. You've given me some food for thought, so thank you.

[Togakure]

Gregoshi san: I've never heard of the Iron Man rules, so that factored into why I ranted as I did. It was a bit dicey of me. I guess I was surprised to encounter that tone from you; you are consistently the friendly, helpful one when it comes to giving advice and keeping the peace, and I hadn't seen you express yourself that way before. Now that you explain your perspective, I understand better where you were coming from. As you are a moderator, I guess I had unfairly expected more sensitivity in how you expressed your opinion. Gomen.

The comments I made were not intended for you alone. Really, it was my opinion expressed to everyone, a reminder to consider the manner in which opinions are expressed. I too have my moments, that post being one of them . I think we would all do well to state our positions without being critical of another's opinion ... directly or indirectly.

Now, to work on setting that example as best as I can.

[Gregoshi]

I was trying to be brief and cute about the Iron Man rules. I'll have to watch my brief comments. This was the second such brief post that sparked a ruckus in the past few weeks. Sorry for putting you off balance Togakure.

[Oaty]

I think Daveinkorea is corrupting Gregoshi

[Togakure]

Oh now Oaty, that's REALLY mean ...

Gregoshi san's A#1.

Hi by the way

[Gregoshi]

Quote[/b] (oaty @ Oct. 09 2003,20:29)]I think Daveinkorea is corrupting Gregoshi

Or I've been watching too much Jerry Springer...

[ZeaLitY]

I usually don't exploit this bug unless I'm attempting to edit the game or cheat in some way; I'm afraid that I won't become skilled in the game's normal method of play otherwise. The position of a few factions would be greatly enhanced if this were official and the AI were able to use it.

[Gregoshi]

I agree about wanting the AI to use Port Invasions too. It would certainly make the game more interesting. It would also make you think a little more about building too many ports.